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May 8 2024 1.07am

Whiteley a spy, says Tomlinson

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View Sedlescombe's Profile Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 07 Mar 17 5.06pm Send a Private Message to Sedlescombe Add Sedlescombe as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


som
I think that is a reality of life and as a person in a minority it is inevitable that you will receive a greater proportion. Some people just don't like the potential issues with employing someone of a different ethnicity or they prefer to work with people of their own ethnicity. That is inevitable to a greater or lesser degree while humans are humans.

I think that is something more from the past. I think (suspect?) there are relatively few examples of people sitting at a desk and outright discriminating against women or a person of a different race although that certainly happens. I think it is more the case that the recruiter tends to appoint someone just like themselves who just happens to be white and male in the majority of instances

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Mar 17 5.08pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I would too. I think I'd also like to spend some of that hypothetical wealth helping others, such as setting up scholarship grants for 'poor kids' to pay for university or private school.

Its very important that in 'implementing socialism' we do not remove the incentive to work. Kids shouldn't be prevented from the best education if they show the potential to benefit from it. But its important that we don't fall into the trap of thinking everyone is the same ability or interests. Just 'allowing everyone to go to university' isn't an answer, it should be focused on those who 'earn a place'. The real failure is that we don't offer suitable alternatives to a good career that don't require higher educational achievement.

For example, apprenticeships, work place programs etc. You shouldn't need to go to university to become a lawyer or solicitor, there should exist an equal level of intake based on legal apprenticeships (in fact most people don't realise these even exist anymore - And that as a school leaver you could become a solicitor quicker than if you went to college, university and post-grad training).

The reason these have become less popular, is of course companies and businesses don't want to pay for training and production of skilled employees, when the state and more recently the prospective employee can shoulder the burden.

I suppose in the end, we need a workforce that suits our needs as a society. We need to encourage the exceptional and the gifted but make adequate provision for the average and below average. There is the issue that people are judged on pure academic performance and judged by people who qualified through the same process. This means that potentially gifted, capable people who don't do well in an traditional academic environment fall by the wayside.
It would certainly be better if there was opportunity for those who fall at the first hurdle to get a chance to go by another route and not be condemned to a second class education.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Mar 17 5.14pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

I think that is something more from the past. I think (suspect?) there are relatively few examples of people sitting at a desk and outright discriminating against women or a person of a different race although that certainly happens. I think it is more the case that the recruiter tends to appoint someone just like themselves who just happens to be white and male in the majority of instances

Well that's all it takes. There doesn't have to be overt prejudice just a desire for the least potentially problematic option or a desire to be with the perceived like minded.
It's what humans do.

 

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View tome's Profile tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 07 Mar 17 5.24pm Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I suppose in the end, we need a workforce that suits our needs as a society. We need to encourage the exceptional and the gifted but make adequate provision for the average and below average. There is the issue that people are judged on pure academic performance and judged by people who qualified through the same process. This means that potentially gifted, capable people who don't do well in an traditional academic environment fall by the wayside.
It would certainly be better if there was opportunity for those who fall at the first hurdle to get a chance to go by another route and not be condemned to a second class education.

This is actually what I'm trying to achieve - changing education by including a variety of different assessment types. I think the primary duty of the education system is to the students, to give them the basics and provide them with experiences through which they can determine the future which inspires or interests them.

Employers and universities should find their own ways of selection based on their values.

 


A one and a two...

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 07 Mar 17 5.39pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

I am not having a go at Trump I am saying his actions fall within your description of the liberal left. Your charges are false as I have explained elsewhere in these threads. If there is a conspiracy in the establishment it is of public school t***s few of whom are liberals or Liberals

Well of course I am not saying that everyone that stifles free speech is liberal left. I have little regard for Trump, his not wanting newspapers he knows will attack him at his press conference is similar to Cardiff University students not wanting Germaine Greer to speak to them because she does not agree with their peculiar views on gender.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View tome's Profile tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 07 Mar 17 5.44pm Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Well of course I am not saying that everyone that stifles free speech is liberal left. I have little regard for Trump, his not wanting newspapers he knows will attack him at his press conference is similar to Cardiff University students not wanting Germaine Greer to speak to them because she does not agree with their peculiar views on gender.

But the actions of the state are considerably larger than those of a students' union, are they not?

Also, you've got the person speaking decides who can be in the audience, that seems to me quite different from the audience deciding who they want to listen to.

Surely the whole point of the 4th estate is to scrutinise actions of the state in order to encourage better policy or highlight mistakes?

 


A one and a two...

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 07 Mar 17 5.50pm

Originally posted by tome

But the actions of the state are considerably larger than those of a students' union, are they not?

Also, you've got the person speaking decides who can be in the audience, that seems to me quite different from the audience deciding who they want to listen to.

Surely the whole point of the 4th estate is to scrutinise actions of the state in order to encourage better policy or highlight mistakes?

Has Trump turned into Louis XIV then? You think the majority of the media coverage of Trump is reasonable journalism then? The BBC had an article saying Trump was disrespectful to black people because one of his aides sat with her legs on a sofa.

Edited by hedgehog50 (07 Mar 2017 5.56pm)

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View Sedlescombe's Profile Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 07 Mar 17 5.58pm Send a Private Message to Sedlescombe Add Sedlescombe as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Well of course I am not saying that everyone that stifles free speech is liberal left. I have little regard for Trump, his not wanting newspapers he knows will attack him at his press conference is similar to Cardiff University students not wanting Germaine Greer to speak to them because she does not agree with their peculiar views on gender.


I am not sure comparing Trump and Cardiff University SU are exactly comparable and you make the point as if I am somehow I am in favour of banning Greer. What Cardiff have done is nothing to do with the liberal left or any Liberal Elite. It is the opposite of liberalism.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 07 Mar 17 6.22pm

What's any of this got to do with Richard Whiteley?

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 07 Mar 17 6.22pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe


I am not sure comparing Trump and Cardiff University SU are exactly comparable and you make the point as if I am somehow I am in favour of banning Greer. What Cardiff have done is nothing to do with the liberal left or any Liberal Elite. It is the opposite of liberalism.

That is rather my point. The current liberal left is illiberal.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View Sedlescombe's Profile Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 07 Mar 17 6.28pm Send a Private Message to Sedlescombe Add Sedlescombe as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

That is rather my point. The current liberal left is illiberal.

That's not true. They are probably a bunch of trots at a student union. They are not liberals or Liberals. Your just thinking up things you don't like and pointing at them and saying Liberal.

What are the names of these people and what makes you think they are members of the Liberal Democrats? Even Peter Tatchell has been "no-platformed, These people are not liberals and you saying they are doesn't make it true.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Mar 17 6.34pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

That's not true. They are probably a bunch of trots at a student union. They are not liberals or Liberals. Your just thinking up things you don't like and pointing at them and saying Liberal.

What are the names of these people and what makes you think they are members of the Liberal Democrats? Even Peter Tatchell has been "no-platformed, These people are not liberals and you saying they are doesn't make it true.

Arguing about definitions. I love it.

 

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