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May 11 2024 9.59am

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 27 Jan 19 10.40am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

We haven't even left and wages are going up with less EU labour coming over. But you keep focusing on the negatives

What he fails to recognise is U.K. labour is very skilled (moreso if trained), and relatively well educated, and always has been and can be. What he wants is to erode that, whether knowingly or not. Part of the point of Brexit was to benefit from our strengths, not see them being eroded or us being taken advantage of. But it won’t stop him posting whatever moan comes into his head during breakfast.

 


COYP

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 27 Jan 19 10.41am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Are you writing your thoughts whilst looking in a mirror?

I've not insulted you. I am right and you are wrong, this has been proven. You are deflecting: take the links: mine was titled "what an MP does" from the UK parliament website and detailed my position word for word: inarguable!

Yours was a link to a debate on the same website which, after listing a quotation, concluded my position!

Since then you've been condescending and insulting: this Trump accusation a prime example.

The trump comparison would be unfair in your case as he, at least, has conviction. You're the equivalent of shouting an opinion, sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "I'm right, you're wrong" over and over.

Let's go back to the links. Explain where you get your nonsense about its the MP's job to act as a dictator from "the MP is a representative of his constituents"?

Insults? Read your first paragraph!

Claiming you are right and I am wrong because what you have said has been proven is the attitude of a 5 year old. Just because you have found a simple summary of the daily tasks of an MP, which seems to be just a guide for secondary school students or overseas visitors, means zilch and proves nothing in the context of the, albeit arcane, way that they need to reach their decisions as representatives and not as delegates. This seems to be too subtle for you to grasp which seems to be confirmed by your rather silly assertion that my link confirms your opinion. Which is why I recommended that you contact your own expert, your local MP! Maybe they can penetrate your prejudice.

You imitate Trump again in your last accusation. Shouting I am right over and over again is precisely what you are doing. This is a regrettable development of the Trump era and many seem infected by it, whether by accident or design I don't know, but the sooner reason and a willingness to actually consider points, returns the better.

MPs are NOT dictators and I have never suggested they are. They are the representatives of their constituents best interests. All their constituents and not one section of them. Their job is to use their own judgement to decide what those interests are. If therefore it is their conviction that their constituents would be best served by taking decisions that some would not approve of then their duty is to take such decisions.

You want them to be delegates and cannot accept that what you have got are representatives.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 27 Jan 19 10.45am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

I fear that Brexit is doomed.

The PM is now talking about MPs working longer hours and having to cancel their holidays, never going to happen.

 


One more point

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Pussay Patrol Flag 27 Jan 19 10.46am

Originally posted by ChrisGC

As soon as it's clear that no deal isn't an option, all negotiation strength is lost. The opponent can do whatever they want, knowing that you'll accept anything over nothing. It's weak and against the number one negotiation rule: always be prepared to walk away.

If you were haggling over the price of a car and you said to the salesman " I absolutely will not leave without this car", what sort of a 'deal' would you get?

As it is, no deal is what I was voting for. We have no obligation to negotiate, and it's only in the EU's best interest that we do. May, havingoved away from the legal text which dictates how to leave the EU, has created a mess in an attempt to give us Hobson's choice:

Remain, or remain plus 40billion.

Inadvertently, her blunder may yet deliver us leaving the EU on the proper terms as the clock runs out, but I don't hold my breath.

As I said to someone else that is not a correct analogy

Buying a car you have the freedom of choice to simply go elsewhere without any consequences

It's a negotiation between 2 parties and 2 parties only

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 27 Jan 19 10.47am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Insults? Read your first paragraph!

Claiming you are right and I am wrong because what you have said has been proven is the attitude of a 5 year old. Just because you have found a simple summary of the daily tasks of an MP, which seems to be just a guide for secondary school students or overseas visitors, means zilch and proves nothing in the context of the, albeit arcane, way that they need to reach their decisions as representatives and not as delegates. This seems to be too subtle for you to grasp which seems to be confirmed by your rather silly assertion that my link confirms your opinion. Which is why I recommended that you contact your own expert, your local MP! Maybe they can penetrate your prejudice.

You imitate Trump again in your last accusation. Shouting I am right over and over again is precisely what you are doing. This is a regrettable development of the Trump era and many seem infected by it, whether by accident or design I don't know, but the sooner reason and a willingness to actually consider points, returns the better.

MPs are NOT dictators and I have never suggested they are. They are the representatives of their constituents best interests. All their constituents and not one section of them. Their job is to use their own judgement to decide what those interests are. If therefore it is their conviction that their constituents would be best served by taking decisions that some would not approve of then their duty is to take such decisions.

You want them to be delegates and cannot accept that what you have got are representatives.

Going by your understanding of parliament then, seeing as nowhere in any manifesto did it mention overturning the Brexit vote but indeed mentioned honouring it then they should stand down for a by election, as mentioned yesterday.

 


COYP

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 27 Jan 19 10.49am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

As I said to someone else that is not a correct analogy

Buying a car you have the freedom of choice to simply go elsewhere without any consequences

It's a negotiation between 2 parties and 2 parties only

Yes and they are showing themselves for what they are seeing as there’s no EU.2 next door. You might be ok with their behaviour.

 


COYP

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Pussay Patrol Flag 27 Jan 19 10.52am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

For the 1,000th time, this was a decision made on the future of the country, not the immediate pocket and disposable income.

Total nonsense

If you told the 52% you would be financially worse off in 2 years with no obvious sign of when they would get a return I doubt it would be 52%

If it is clear that people would lose initially then the benefits should also be clear and obvious. They are not

You want people to invest and risk their futures without telling them how or when it will pay off

Edited by Pussay Patrol (27 Jan 2019 10.55am)

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 27 Jan 19 10.55am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

As soon as it's clear that no deal isn't an option, all negotiation strength is lost. The opponent can do whatever they want, knowing that you'll accept anything over nothing. It's weak and against the number one negotiation rule: always be prepared to walk away.

If you were haggling over the price of a car and you said to the salesman " I absolutely will not leave without this car", what sort of a 'deal' would you get?

As it is, no deal is what I was voting for. We have no obligation to negotiate, and it's only in the EU's best interest that we do. May, havingoved away from the legal text which dictates how to leave the EU, has created a mess in an attempt to give us Hobson's choice:

Remain, or remain plus 40billion.

Inadvertently, her blunder may yet deliver us leaving the EU on the proper terms as the clock runs out, but I don't hold my breath.


I have done enough negotiations to understand the "who blinks first tactic". In something as important as this it is though a big risk and one none of us amateurs can really evaluate. We are just interested observers.

It really isn't just a question of "walking away" if the price isn't right. It is much, much more complex than that with many political and economic consequences. Lives are potentially at risk in Ireland.

You no more voted for no deal than I did! No-one at all knew the detail in 2016 or that we would get to this point with such stark disagreements. When were the difficulties in Ireland ever debated during the referendum? All I remember were the slurs about "Project Fear". Looking back it seems to me that people did not take those fears nearly seriously enough given what is now happening.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 27 Jan 19 11.00am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Going by your understanding of parliament then, seeing as nowhere in any manifesto did it mention overturning the Brexit vote but indeed mentioned honouring it then they should stand down for a by election, as mentioned yesterday.

You sound like Corbyn! Are you sure that you really want that?

Manifestos are not, nor can they ever be, handcuffs to the winds of chance. Parliament has to react to circumstances and not be locked to the past. Remember what Macmillan said about events determining policy.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 27 Jan 19 11.35am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Remember what Macmillan said about events determining policy.

Absolutely. And events determined that Parliament, by a huge margin, decided to go to the British people and offer them a simple Leave or Remain choice. With a no small print promise to implement that decision.

And 52% voted to leave.

Providing Parliament with their policy to follow.

That simple.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 27 Jan 19 11.36am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You sound like Corbyn! Are you sure that you really want that?

Manifestos are not, nor can they ever be, handcuffs to the winds of chance. Parliament has to react to circumstances and not be locked to the past. Remember what Macmillan said about events determining policy.

Its also worth remembering what happens to politicians who betray their manifesto commitments. Just ask Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems, how did that work out for them?

Voters don't like being lied to.

 


One more point

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steve1984 27 Jan 19 11.41am

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Ha ha, that is a big part of my business.

Sure it is.

 

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