Precisely. We need to leave, but we don't need to leave on no deal. Leaving on a managed deal is not 'not leaving'. That, is a fact.

Customs Union comes closest to remaining, and for that reason I can't see that version happening. Will no doubt end up being some sort of frankensteined May deal, with an extension into 2020.

The more I think about it the more I think a second ref is unlikely, or at least a one with no deal and deal as the only two options. Can't see the politicos putting the most feared option on the table to the plebs again. Too risky.

And to those surprised at the continuing obfuscation – you can't say there is a corrupt political elite making decisions for themselves one minute then expect them to simply ratify something like this without a hitch the next. Naive at best.

Makes me laugh - hating the system because it’s protecting its own interests then expecting the same system to implement something that goes against the grain.

As long as we do leave, I can't see room for complaint. You can wish you had a harder, softer or no brexit at all, but the result of the vote will have been honoured. Choosing 'leave' did not mean 'no deal'. Considering the vote split had the option been 'Leave with no deal on WTO terms' Remain would probably have won. So every cloud. And that's that

They're looking to recoup some of these losses by picking on Italy and handing them a 3.5billion fine for doing nothing more than France and Germany have done in the past.........fine-free?
How people can't see that the EU is nothing more than a ponzi scheme for France and Germany baffles me.

I'd not quite looked at it this way. You do come across as a balanced voice in a tribal atmosphere. To me remaining makes little sense, as it goes against the majority vote. Those voices and that fact aren't going away just because some close their eyes to it, that's true even if the vote is 'somehow' overturned. It's a reality that remainers need to face.

At the same time though, this 'f*ck em all off', boo hiss EU attitude is shortsighted. Ultimately we have more in common with our European partners than those elsewhere around the world and so logically it makes little sense to dismiss them or for the relationship between us to become more and more hostile.

A sensible and reciprocal attitude with close European nations, where we have control over immigration policy makes a hell of a lot more sense than this, 'f*ck the EU, think of the opportunities in Guam' style attitude.

A balanced exit 'if possible' is not the end of the world, and so I hope the EU and UK can achieve that, rather that this gungho complete and sudden exit strategy. I've travelled around a bit in Europe lately, and while views vary I've come across a few people in countries that clearly are a hair's breadth different to our own who seem to think we actively dislike them and what they stand for. I don't want out allegiances, or indeed or union to increasingly fragment, and so acknowledge that comprises need to be made on all sides. Sometimes to compromise can indicate acceptable of a reality, rather than demonstration of weakness.

The hysteria and endless dragging on of this process due to our failing punch and judy party system is obscuring basic realities. A personal flavour of 'leave' from a menu is less important than actually just getting on and doing it.

Edited by dollardays (30 May 2019 12.00am)

Apart from the USA of course!!!!!!!

They did. According to a LibDem Councillor I spoke with who had taken her seat from UKIP they are now changing their minds in droves.