I see no ideological influences involved at all. These are decisions taken by clinicians on a recognised medical condition. Ideology is set aside by such people when assessing the best course of action. One of the fundamental requirements placed on any clinician is adherence to the Hippocratic oath, the key requirement of which is to "do no harm". Break that and you lose your job.

You see no ideological influences because you still seem to place unshakeable faith in 'experts', 'clinicians', 'recognised conditions' etc. The hippocratic oath went out of the window a while back. The blind faith in any kind of expert or professional needs to be addressed. They are not Gods, they hold no moral superiority over anyone. They are as corruptible, ideologically driven and can be as evil as anyone else. No. They do not lose their job. If anything they are rewarded, because they are following the agenda. If they were to speak out about it, then they would likely lose their jobs. And believe you me, this is most certainly an agenda.

It is quite bizarre as a stance in the argument isn't it? If only Harold Shipman had properly understood the implications of his hippocratic oath...

Edited by Nicholas91 (16 Jun 2023 2.04pm)

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

I don't have an "unshakeable faith" in anyone. Everyone is capable of making mistakes. What I have is a preference for the knowledge of experts, as a group, compared to the prejudices of a group of non-experts. Such as are found here.

Why on earth do you think the Hippocratic oath went out of the window? What nonsense. All the clinicians I have ever had any contact with hold the highest integrity.

The idea that they would follow some kind of agenda is a conspiracy theory on fire. It has no basis in reality. My wife is a nurse. I have friends who are doctors. I will mention your assertions to them as they need to be aware of these slurs. They won't be impressed.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

And what of all the 'doctors' who participated in Nazi atrocities, including the likes of Mengele?

Were they subject to the Hippocratic oath? If so why did this not work then? If not, was it the only missing thing to halt their barbarism?

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

You describe a situation of social shaming that was common for pregnancy out of wedlock. My family had a similar situation in the past as I'm sure many did.

There was a practical reason for that social shaming that had a purpose other than religious. Personally I regard some mid way house as a better place to where the attitudes between the past and now are.

For over a generation we have had an underclass use pregnancy for various ruses....it's not nice to say it but I've seen it in action. I shouldn't just pick on the underclass either...there's an anti natal movement born of nihilism that's positively anti humanity but I'm moving away from the point.

Your personal identification is interesting. I have English, Irish/Scots influences myself. Perhaps it's better just to regard yourself as a pan British Isles/European as that's what anyone with full genes from here are regardless.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Jun 2023 3.00am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Yep, it's an excellent point that both you and Darwin make and it's one that been made before in response to this regularly put idea.

Bad apples? He just ignores all the group think stuff and presents professionals as divorced from all the usual human flaws when they are as varied and as human as anybody else.

You would think that given his age and having lived through the Thalidomide scandal he would have learnt that.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)