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nickgusset  Shizzlehurst 28 Apr 17 7.59am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
There's a lot in Nick's pdf cut and paste job summary that rings true to my personal experiences with Muslims.....though you get a sense from the text that they are trying to play down any concerns...I doubt they would be doing this if the survey were about say far right groups....Anyway in my experience of working with Muslims I've found most are pretty socially conservative, though often hypocritical, attached to their mosque and group, and that some of them (the less worrying ones) don't really know much about their own religion....though that last point is probably true of most people brought up in religion. The problem with people like Nick and Kermy is that they aren't spending much time listening to Islamic reformers and instead seem to be parroting pretty detached and stupid approaches from 'progressive' left wing thought which has already done quite a bit of damage in society....the responses to gang rapes for example....wholly attributable to their ideology of playing down the issues. Essentially what Sam Harris says about his group is correct in my experience. Around about 85 percent of them.....while they might have unsettling views on some things aren't going to be very political or seriously religious is a troubling way. Whereas about 15 percent (with variations in different countries) are a problem and until apologists start to realise the error of their ways then society isn't really going to tackle this problem without discord.....and hence the delay and problem will just continue to grow going forward.....Some of them telling the rest of us that we just have to 'live with it' isn't good enough. Sam Harris and Maajid Nawaz recently wrote a book together.... Islam and the Future of Tolerance: A Dialogue.....People like Nick and Kermy should read it...perhaps then we wouldn't then have to listen to ignorance and denial of this very real and significant problem turned up to eleven. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Apr 2017 7.49am) As I've already said, terrorist attacks are f***ing horrible. But they are a consequence of the so called war on terror. To not expect any comeback from government decisions to send troops in (whether rightly or wrongly but that's not the argument here) is facile. What I cannot stand Is the wholesale demonisation of all Muslims. how many Muslims have been involved in such attacks vs Muslims who haven't? Still had no ideas for solutions from anyone (including myself).
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 Stirlingsays 28 Apr 17 8.01am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
As I've already said, terrorist attacks are f***ing horrible. But they are a consequence of the so called war on terror. To not expect any comeback from government decisions to send troops in (whether rightly or wrongly but that's not the argument here) is facile. What I cannot stand Is the wholesale demonisation of all Muslims. how many Muslims have been involved in such attacks vs Muslims who haven't? Still had no ideas for solutions from anyone (including myself). A while back you said you'd look into this area....obviously not. Read the book....In fact start listening to Islamic reformers like your liberal friend Nawaz.....Maybe then you might actually learn something instead of thinking everything is 'demonisation'. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Apr 2017 8.05am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 28 Apr 17 8.04am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
A while back you said you'd look into this area....obviously not. Read the book....In fact start listening to Islamic reformers like you liberal friend Nawaz.....Maybe then you might actually learn something. Give us a precis of what their solution is.
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| Stirlingsays 28 Apr 17 8.07am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Give us a precis of what their solution is. They have different perspectives: I can highly recommend it. Essentially internal Islamic reform.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| davenotamonkey 28 Apr 17 8.13am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Personal abuse. Great. I call a spade a spade, but I agree. Please can we have a mod yellow-card me for likely infringement of forum rules?
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| davenotamonkey 28 Apr 17 8.17am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
As I've already said, terrorist attacks are f***ing horrible. But they are a consequence of the so called war on terror. To not expect any comeback from government decisions to send troops in (whether rightly or wrongly but that's not the argument here) is facile. What I cannot stand Is the wholesale demonisation of all Muslims. how many Muslims have been involved in such attacks vs Muslims who haven't? Still had no ideas for solutions from anyone (including myself). Yeah. Serves those Swedish right, with their war on terror. Germany too. That Filipino war on terror is terrible as well. They all had it coming to them. I could go on...
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Kermit8  Hevon 28 Apr 17 8.27am |
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'The War on Terror' has accelerated a mindset within Wahhabism for sure but it was already there. Bin Laden had been active for the decade leading up to 2001 and his teachers had been brewing and bubbling for decades before that. Now, Iran - can anyone explain to me how that country, not very nice as it is, is a direct threat, it is run by fundamentals after all, to the UK? If we are targeting Muslims then they have to be near the top of the list, no? Muslim Iranians in London. What should we do about them? And Ismaili muslims. Few of them around. 15,000 in London. They dress like Westerners but you never know. Seem like a right 'orrible lot what with their voluntary work, charity fundraising and "We're not focused on doctrine but rather take a civilisational approach," said Mr Kabani VP of Ismaili Council "We take an ethical approach on how to be a good Muslim" verbals. Edited by Kermit8 (28 Apr 2017 9.09am)
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 28 Apr 17 8.47am |
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Originally posted by davenotamonkey
Yeah. Serves those Swedish right, with their war on terror. Germany too. That Filipino war on terror is terrible as well. They all had it coming to them. I could go on... You do go on. What's your solution?
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| Kermit8 Hevon 28 Apr 17 9.00am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
You do go on. What's your solution? Internment for 1.6billion muslims, it appears.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| Stirlingsays 28 Apr 17 9.10am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
'The War on Terror' has accelerated a mindset within Wahhabism for sure but it was already there. Bin Laden had been active for the decade leading up to 2001 and his teachers had been brewing and bubbling for decades before that. Now, Iran - can anyone explain to me how that country, not very nice as it is, is a direct threat, it is run by fundamentals after all, to the UK? If we are targeting Muslims then they have to be near the top of the list, no? Muslim Iranians in London. What should we do about them? Edited by Kermit8 (28 Apr 2017 9.01am) Listen to and back Islamic reformers in the UK and worldwide.....You know...actually take action. Ban religious schools. Closely monitor mosques and close down problematic ones. Any new immans have to sign up to a Islam that broadly follows a liberal Islam in the vein of Islam reformers. Strip nationality of and deport to a negotiated country those Muslims who are members of anti western groups in the UK. Ignore people like you who think the problem is one percent and only related to Wahhabism. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Apr 2017 9.12am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 28 Apr 17 9.11am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Internment for 1.6billion muslims, it appears. More facepalming.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 28 Apr 17 9.13am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Listen to and back Islamic reformers in the UK and worldwide.....You know...actually take action. Ban religious schools. Closely monitor mosques and close down problematic ones. Any new immans have to sign up to a Islam that broadly follows a liberal Islam in the vein of Islam reformers. Strip nationality of and deport to a negotiated country those Muslims who are members of anti western groups in the UK. Ignore people like you who think the problem is one percent. Why aren't white people doing enough about homophobic attacks?
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