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 Stirlingsays  22 Dec 21 5.24pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
No, I make two points. First, this specific pronouncement has been found to be incorrect. Largely that is because it was made before the vaccines were developed and was largely predicated on an assumption of vaccinations not being rapid or effective enough. No it hasn't been found to be incorrect. You just prefer the sources that confirm your opinions. Secondly, the vaccines are more akin to treatments in their effectiveness....the difference between what people were promised and the reality is significant. Also, the points made in the declaration are hardly based upon your assumptions but on general policy towards outbreaks. Originally posted by Mapletree
Second, this (non-medical) organisation has proved to be unreliable in prior announcements. The AIER has spread unreliable information about COVID-19 throughout the pandemic. In September 2020, it published a bizarre rant by its ‘Senior Resident Fellow’, George Gilder, who declared that the “Covid-19 crisis was already essentially over” by late April, based on a clearly inaccurate article that suggested “the spread of the coronavirus declines to almost zero after 70 days—no matter where it strikes, and no matter what measures governments impose to try to thwart it”. But hey, keep searching for your holy grail of someone that is credible and also anti all the things that you are. If you find it then you will have outperformed every relevantly qualified medical scientist in the world. Or stop believing in witchcraft and save yourself some time. Edited by Mapletree (22 Dec 2021 5.14pm) You are referring to the sponsor and looking to demonise them when the signatures of this declaration are amongst the highest qualified out there. Sunetra Gupta is a Professor of Theoretical Epidemiology at the Oxford University Department of Zoology. You said these people didn't exist and mocked that surgeon. Frankly you deserve this rebuttal. You were wrong and were spreading misinformation. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Dec 2021 5.25pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 22 Dec 21 5.35pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
And presumably don't care about the effect they have upon others, such as hospital workers and those that need hospital appointments. Do you also argue so vehemently against anti-smoking information? By the way, the good news is there are now two more drugs that will save lives for you to inform others they should not be taking. I assume when you (inevitably) get Omicron you will not consider taking either Molnupiravir or Paxlovid. The arguments would be very similar to those about vaccines so definitely not a good idea for you to take them. The evidence against smoking is many decades old. I have no issues with people being advised against smoking.....It only involves them not putting things in their body. As for me....haven't I said my position enough times? Don't speak for me, as you'll be as incorrect as usual. I have never criticised people for taking these vaccines. It is their personal choice. As I said my personal decision was 60/40 against for various reasons. However, each person decides for themselves. I do criticise both the government and institutions for using coercion and recommending the young and healthy take vaccines that can have no real benefit for them. I will look again in the new year. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Dec 2021 5.53pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 22 Dec 21 5.41pm |
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Seeing as you like to put words into people's mouths Maple....did you perhaps help write Andrew Lawrence's script for him?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Phil’s Barber Crowborough 22 Dec 21 5.51pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
In other news the shocking revelation that most patients in hospital with lung cancer are smokers. Surely you understand that most people who aren't vaccinated are well aware of the small increase in risk? Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Dec 2021 5.06pm) How on earth can you suggest there is only a small increased risk of being seriously ill when Public Health England’s own studies have shown both the Pfizer and Astra Zeneca vaccine reduces the risk of ‘Serious illness or Death’ in the UK by more than 75% !!! The clinical trials and reports into the effectiveness of the vaccines in the early part of 2021 were hugely significant and widely publicised and for anyone commenting on the Coronavirus pandemic to be unaware of these would be simply absurd.
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| Stirlingsays 22 Dec 21 5.59pm |
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Originally posted by Phil’s Barber
How on earth can you suggest there is only a small increased risk of being seriously ill when Public Health England’s own studies have shown both the Pfizer and Astra Zeneca vaccine reduces the risk of ‘Serious illness or Death’ in the UK by more than 75% !!! The clinical trials and reports into the effectiveness of the vaccines in the early part of 2021 were hugely significant and widely publicised and for anyone commenting on the Coronavirus pandemic to be unaware of these would be simply absurd. You do realise that the population is near 70 million don't you? When you look at how many people have been seriously ill, that figure is tiny and that was when the virus has at its height even before vaccines. Going back to the start of this I'm on here with others recommending measures be taken to reduce risks....so it's hardly as if I ignore them. However, for the average healthy person the sense of proportionality of risk and hence fear has been heighted deliberately...by the government's behaviourial division. So yes, statistically for most people it is a small increased risk. I have no issues with you taking vaccines, and I'm not saying that no risk exists. It's context specific to the individual. In fact if you are elderly or have health problems and feel vulnerable I would recommend it.....though obviously I don't need to in your case. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Dec 2021 6.01pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Eaglecoops CR3 22 Dec 21 6.13pm |
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Stirling, I just saw a t shirt and thought of you, it said ‘Transvaccinated’ Kill two threads with one stone
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Dec 21 6.26pm |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
Exactly. What is ‘behaving responsibly’ Is it attending an event or public house or show or place of work whilst being fully vaccinated and possibly asymptomatically carrying the virus or would it be better getting tested (whether vaccinated or not) beforehand in the knowledge of being free of the virus that day? I say this as I have caught it, having tested negative before the Palace match last week and positive 3 days later so it’s likely to be the source of infection. I feel pretty crap but to be honest no worse than a heavy winter cold. My point is that I have picked it up despite being fully vaccinated and may well have picked it up from someone carrying it asymptomatically. So are those who are fully vaccinated (and youngsters), being selfish by going outside their homes in the knowledge they could be passing it on asymptomatically? It sounds daft doesn’t it but the only true way of knowing if you are carrying the virus is if you test every morning before you go out. On that basis the simple answer to the pandemic would be to come up with a very cheap daily home test that could be flooded into the population rather than wasting billions on test and trace which has failed its primary purpose. This leads onto the veracity of this latest variant which is a bit of a game changer it would seem as it appears to have mutated into a normal type of nasty coronavirus type winter cold. Has the vaccine worked for me, I’ll never really know as I still have the symptoms (that from what I have read), both vaccinated and unvaccinated have got from the Omicron variant. My point here is that if we have reached the point where the virus only kills those who are vulnerable then surely it is only them that need to be vaccinated on an ongoing basis and regular testing becomes more important to understand what is going on within the population. My comments only refer to the current variant and likely future variants as it is most common for them to become less veracious as they mutate. Just a thought. It's a very big "if" though, at the moment, so we need to stay cautious until we achieve certainty. It isn't though the only consideration. Whether Omicron is a killer, or not, if it puts the unvaccinated into hospital in great numbers then getting them vaccinated matters. Vaccination protects against severe disease. The NHS matters.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 22 Dec 21 6.28pm |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
Stirling, I just saw a t shirt and thought of you, it said ‘Transvaccinated’ Kill two threads with one stone
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Goal Machine  The Cronx 22 Dec 21 6.47pm |
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Not commented on this thread yet, but I know a few frontline doctors so am influenced by them… Currently the hospitals are packed with people who are unvaccinated. Vaccinated people are generally ok with the rare case of those with underlying conditions being ill. The knock on is that hospitals can’t cope which is why social restrictions are being implemented. I believe it’s everyone’s moral duty to get vaccinated so we can we return to normal. This is perhaps a bit strong, but those refusing, in my opinion, fall into one of three categories; those who believe conspiracy theories which make them either mental or thick. Those who are social recluses and enjoy the way we now live. Or those who are plain selfish and/or stubborn and not willing to do their bit for society. I know a bloke who doesn’t even believe covid exists and is massive anti vax. He also thinks the world is flat and that US Pesidents eat babies. He falls under the mental or thick category. Thankfully he is only one of two anti vaxxers I know. I’ve heard a couple of stories in the last week of friends of friends who have been anti vax and are now on their death beds (probably dead by now). I’ve no sympathy for them, clogging up hospital space. Rant over.
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| Stirlingsays 22 Dec 21 6.50pm |
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Well....that's that sorted then.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Dec 21 7.29pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The sooner we can block this clown the better. Here we go again! Yet another ad hominem. This one though is really very revealing. As well as avoiding answering the criticism. It comes from a passionate advocate of free speech. Yet who doesn't want someone's opinions to be aired. It comes from a fierce critic of "cancel culture". Yet who wants to cancel someone. Hypocrisy on fire! In any event what would "blocking" achieve? It would only stop personal messages being sent. As none have ever been exchanged with this poster what possible benefit could accrue? I post in open on the message board where no-one is obliged to either read my posts, or respond to them. Unless and until I transgress the rules sufficiently to warrant a ban, I will post here so those who wish to read them can do so.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Dec 21 7.34pm |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
All in all I think the numbers getting vaccinated has been impressive and has elevated levels of immunity and recognition of covid society wide in as safe a way as possible. With anything there are always going to be opt outs, but it was never going to be the case that everyone got vaccinated, so it's probably about as good as it gets. Being that most of us now have through vaccination and infection some recognition of and protection against variants of covid-19, perhaps even the idea of testing all of the time eventually becomes somewhat redundant. As I say it's community minded, but in a way once we're able to cope with covid, its constant circulation isn't something we'll be able to do much about, and secondly isn't really a bad thing through ongoing topped up protection through routine exposure to it. Delta acted as a 'booster' in most receiving it, especially those in the safest fashion (post vaccination). This will likely or at least hopefully be the same. As in, it's a worry but may end up having a positive side to it especially if it doesn't impact as many people. I can understand concerns, but don't really think the emerging data matches the talk from government so far.
As I said a few days ago it could end up as a blessing in disguise but until we are sure of that caution is the right decision. That's what the government are doing. Buying time so the reality can be assessed.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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