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June 1 2024 1.42pm

CONservative government incompetence.

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 19 Dec 22 6.02pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I've heard it talked about previously and it's been said that the private sector has fared worse.....considering the job security element I can well believe it.

I will say though that I haven't checked any figures on it.....though obviously the private sector covers a huge range of wage scales.

Don't get me wrong, I know that the standard of living crises has affected everyone.....my point was that the private sector have zero protection compared to the public.

I was of course a public sector employee myself but we should never forget that it's the private sector who pay for everything.

If you aren't maintaining that economic engine then we are going nowhere.

I did this exercise for a Business Improvement District, which is kind of neither public nor private sector, a few months ago.

I looked at 2018 to July 2022. Generally private sector increases have been above public sector but between 2020 and 2021 private sector pay fell. However, in 2021-2022 civil service pay was frozen.

The private sector operates bonuses much of the time so you have to look at total compensation.

From May to July 2022 the rate of annual pay growth across all UK sectors for total pay was 5.5%, and the annual pay growth for regular pay was 5.2%.

Consumer Price Index plus Housing (CPIH) was 8.8% in July 2022 and CPI was 10.1%.

National Living Wage rose by 6.6%

Pay review bodies this year are recommending:
Armed Forces 3.75%
Doctors and Dentists 4.5%
NHS 4% for bands 6 and 7
Prison Service 4%
Teachers 5% to 8.9%
Senior Public Sector Salaries 3.5%

Do you still think the public sector faired better than the private sector? And by the way forget security of tenure, look at ability to move jobs. The number of job vacancies in the United Kingdom reached a record high of 1.3 million in the three months to May 2022. Before the pandemic hit that was an average of 785,000.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 19 Dec 22 6.13pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I did this exercise for a Business Improvement District, which is kind of neither public nor private sector, a few months ago.

I looked at 2018 to July 2022. Generally private sector increases have been above public sector but between 2020 and 2021 private sector pay fell. However, in 2021-2022 civil service pay was frozen.

The private sector operates bonuses much of the time so you have to look at total compensation.

From May to July 2022 the rate of annual pay growth across all UK sectors for total pay was 5.5%, and the annual pay growth for regular pay was 5.2%.

Consumer Price Index plus Housing (CPIH) was 8.8% in July 2022 and CPI was 10.1%.

National Living Wage rose by 6.6%

Pay review bodies this year are recommending:
Armed Forces 3.75%
Doctors and Dentists 4.5%
NHS 4% for bands 6 and 7
Prison Service 4%
Teachers 5% to 8.9%
Senior Public Sector Salaries 3.5%

Do you still think the public sector faired better than the private sector? And by the way forget security of tenure, look at ability to move jobs. The number of job vacancies in the United Kingdom reached a record high of 1.3 million in the three months to May 2022. Before the pandemic hit that was an average of 785,000.

I appreciate what you are saying, however I don't think you can just forget job security. It's literally one of the factors that attracts people into the public sector itself....especially in times like this.

Like I said, the private sector pays for all of it....If they aren't as healthy as possible then it's diminishing returns for everybody regardless.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 19 Dec 22 6.52pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I appreciate what you are saying, however I don't think you can just forget job security. It's literally one of the factors that attracts people into the public sector itself....especially in times like this.

Like I said, the private sector pays for all of it....If they aren't as healthy as possible then it's diminishing returns for everybody regardless.

Brexit preparation required the recruitment of well over 50,000 officials - more than the number employed by Brussels to carry out all centralised EU functions. Assuming a cost/head of £40k to include salaries, accommodation, employers' pension contributions & NIC, etc., Brexit preparation cost at least £2 billion pa in staff costs.

Numbers spiked again from mid-2020 and there are currently around 97,000 more officials than in mid-2016. Some of this further increase will have been due to the Covid pandemic and some will have because of further Brexit preparations.

In May 2022, the Government announced that it intended to reduce the civil service to its pre-Brexit referendum size of 384k fte by mid 2025 - despite that an effect of Brexit was to repatriate a significant number of regulatory etc. responsibilities from Brussels, and required additional border control staff. The resultant number would be 91k lower than the (then latest reported) 2021 Q4 figure of 475k.

The Government announced later in 2022 that it had abandoned its target of cutting 91,000 civil service jobs.

So, maybe people don't see it as quite such a safe bet any more. It is at the whim of some pretty desperate and unprincipled people. Which brings us back to CONservative incompetence.

 

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View crystal-purley's Profile crystal-purley Flag Purley 19 Dec 22 7.47pm Send a Private Message to crystal-purley Add crystal-purley as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Do agree with your points.


I may be wrong but to charge NI to pensioners (I am one) as the multiple ways in which we receive payments eg Gov pension and various work pensions would not always be large enough to bring tax and obviously charging in arrears would be punitive. I am very much in favour of the nurses getting SOME of the money back if they are given the 19% but I would be in favour of hitting some of the companies that charge the NHS for their use.

 


Enjoying getting up later and not having someone who knows better than me (apart from the missus of course).

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 19 Dec 22 8.40pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Exactly the sort of argument which is always used to ensure, as you say, we never have to pay key workers appropriately.

It's never going to be the right time for the Government to spend an extra £x billion that they don't *have* to, and so they never will until they're forced to.

There might never be the right time for everyone but there will a better time than this. We simply cannot afford either upsetting the markets again, the tax rises that could mitigate that, or the service cuts which are the alternative. Never mind the inflation.

The Government don’t have any money. They only have ours or borrow some from the future generations. Do you really want them to be forced to give some of that away?

We are in this together and need to deal with it together. We can make plans now as reforms are needed but at the moment all those in work need to be content that they have and get on with it.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 19 Dec 22 8.53pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I think you need to check the figures on pay rises.

The pension is less attractive than it was, since 2015 (unless you were a protected employee) my understanding is that it is a DB scheme based on average earnings not final salary.

Correct. However, there has been a successful legal challenge by long term employees, who were forced onto the new pension scheme. The final judgement on compensation due next year, I believe

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 19 Dec 22 10.01pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

The last 6 years have gone fantastically at least - Boris is clearly a more moral bloke.

The last few years have been plagued by incompetence. We now have on all sides incompetent people who see politics as a career and too many have never had a real job.

Do you accept in full, as a Labour supporter ,the EHRC report on anti semitism in the Labour party?

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 20 Dec 22 6.31am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

A friend is a nurse in a large hospital which is about a 40 minute drive away. Part of the same group is a small local hospital just 10 minutes down the road which never seems to have enough nursing staff in Winter so she volunteered to be seconded there over Winter.

She was complaining yesterday that they hadn't given her many hours this week and that she couldn't survive on part time hours. She rents a small house, drives a brand new car and can just about manage in normal circumstances but not on 21 hours a week. One of her options is to take some bank shifts at higher wages and another is to leave and find a job (nursing or not) with full time hours

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 20 Dec 22 9.22am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

The last few years have been plagued by incompetence. We now have on all sides incompetent people who see politics as a career and too many have never had a real job.

Do you accept in full, as a Labour supporter ,the EHRC report on anti semitism in the Labour party?

I am not a Labour supporter, certainly not in it's current guise.

It's just amusing/revealing people still throw Corbyn's name about like it's of any relevance - I believe his preferred phrase for it is 'living rent free in people's heads' which evidently he is in yours.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 20 Dec 22 9.33am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There might never be the right time for everyone but there will a better time than this. We simply cannot afford either upsetting the markets again, the tax rises that could mitigate that, or the service cuts which are the alternative. Never mind the inflation.

The Government don’t have any money. They only have ours or borrow some from the future generations. Do you really want them to be forced to give some of that away?

We are in this together and need to deal with it together. We can make plans now as reforms are needed but at the moment all those in work need to be content that they have and get on with it.

Yet there was money to give bankers a £7.3 billion tax break - it's simply a matter of priorities.

"We are in this together" is almost insulting - our Government could not have made it any clearer that we are not.

Someone doing life-saving work for 60+ hours a week and then relying on a foodbank to feed themselves should be "content and get on with it". Tory Britain.

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 20 Dec 22 9.54am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow


Someone doing life-saving work for 60+ hours a week and then relying on a foodbank to feed themselves should be "content and get on with it". Tory Britain.

Have a look at my post a couple of posts up for an alternative picture

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 20 Dec 22 10.04am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Have a look at my post a couple of posts up for an alternative picture

Nothing personal, but I really take these "my friend who does X" type of stories with a massive pinch of salt - I don't think there's anything to be learned from those type of individual cases.

14% of nurses have turned to foodbanks in recent months
1 in 3 are struggling to afford food and heating.

 

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