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Jeremy Corbyn


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dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 13 Aug 15 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 Aug 15 3.46pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.


So where has this surge of support for someone standing on a left wing platform come from?

 

Stirlingsays Flag 13 Aug 15 3.47pm

Labour voting in Corbyn would be very interesting and at least truthful to their grass roots.....So actually I support that vote with no real animosity.

It would leave the political scene open for a centralist party though......The Lib Dems had previously been the genuine left wing alternative.....Though I don't see them retaining many of their supporters once Corbyn comes on line.

Maybe Ukip will attempt to take that centralist position.

It's going to be open.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 13 Aug 15 3.48pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Aug 2015 3.46pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.


So where has this surge of support for someone standing on a left wing platform come from?

Not from within his own party thats for damn sure.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

npn Flag Crowborough 13 Aug 15 3.53pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.48pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Aug 2015 3.46pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.


So where has this surge of support for someone standing on a left wing platform come from?

Not from within his own party thats for damn sure.


This ^^^

If he wins, I give it 12 months until he's either been ousted, or there's a split in the party

 

jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 13 Aug 15 3.55pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.

Quite possibly, but he does seem to be wanted by the labour party membership. I'm not really too fussed, because I'd vote tory before I voted for Labor after Smith and Blair turned it into a Corporate Lite Conservative wannabe party.

But it is odd that people seem to object to the idea of someone who is a bit left of centre, as leader of the Labour party.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 Aug 15 3.55pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.48pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Aug 2015 3.46pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.


So where has this surge of support for someone standing on a left wing platform come from?

Not from within his own party thats for damn sure.

Yes, according to others running for the Labour leadership, being popular and having thousands of people turn up to listen to you speak including people being turned away or waiting on the street to hear you speak doesn't actually mean you're popular and can win an election. The trick is to have policies that people have already rejected, are similar to what the opposition is saying and having meetings that no one turns up to.

 

Stuk Flag Top half 13 Aug 15 4.05pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Aug 2015 3.46pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.


So where has this surge of support for someone standing on a left wing platform come from?


The morons who were protesting against Tory cuts about 2 days after the General election win perhaps?

3 standard Labour v 1 left Labour. Do you not think that standard labour voters will be split, whilst the left/just joined to vote have an option of 1.

 


Optimistic as ever

chris123 Flag hove actually 13 Aug 15 4.06pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Aug 2015 3.46pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.


So where has this surge of support for someone standing on a left wing platform come from?


From a disenfranchised left wing that have left the party over the last 40 years. The funny thing for me is that I always thought Ed was inherently much more left wing than his advisors ever let him let on - if he had been true his fundamentals he may have had similar support that Corbyn is enjoying - leading a Labour movement and not just the political arm.

 

npn Flag Crowborough 13 Aug 15 4.06pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 3.55pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.

Quite possibly, but he does seem to be wanted by the labour party membership. I'm not really too fussed, because I'd vote tory before I voted for Labor after Smith and Blair turned it into a Corporate Lite Conservative wannabe party.

But it is odd that people seem to object to the idea of someone who is a bit left of centre, as leader of the Labour party.


I think the only people who really object are the powers that be in the Labour party, which is predominately because they think it threatens their own majorities. Just goes to show that the majority of politicians are in it for themselves.

 

jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 13 Aug 15 4.08pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Aug 2015 3.55pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.48pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Aug 2015 3.46pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.


So where has this surge of support for someone standing on a left wing platform come from?

Not from within his own party thats for damn sure.

Yes, according to others running for the Labour leadership, being popular and having thousands of people turn up to listen to you speak including people being turned away or waiting on the street to hear you speak doesn't actually mean you're popular and can win an election. The trick is to have policies that people have already rejected, are similar to what the opposition is saying and having meetings that no one turns up to.

Indeed

At least 15% of the Parliamentary and European Party (ie the MPs elected for Labour) have to back you to get on the ballet, which means a minimum of 35 MPs.

Bloke seems popular with a large and significant percentage of those capable of voting for a new Labor leader. He's not really all that Left Wing either, just to the left of John Smith and Tony Blair (ie not a center right New Labour Old Tory).


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Hoof Hearted 13 Aug 15 4.15pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Aug 2015 3.46pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.


So where has this surge of support for someone standing on a left wing platform come from?


When you say "surge" nick, lets get things in context.

R4 Today programme said 600,000 people in total were eligible to vote.

Lets assume half of them vote for Corbyn... that is 300,000 people.

He'll need a lot more than that in 5 years time.

Edited by Hoof Hearted (14 Aug 2015 10.26am)

 

We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 13 Aug 15 4.15pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 4.08pm


Indeed

At least 15% of the Parliamentary and European Party (ie the MPs elected for Labour) have to back you to get on the ballet, which means a minimum of 35 MPs.

Bloke seems popular with a large and significant percentage of those capable of voting for a new Labor leader. He's not really all that Left Wing either, just to the left of John Smith and Tony Blair (ie not a center right New Labour Old Tory).



As you've quite rightly said before, politics isn't about what you do so much as how you are perceived. As soon as you come out with bonkers ideas like nationalising energy companies and rail transport (at eye wateringly high sums that he's paying for by printing money, apparently), then you are of course going to be portrayed as a leftie.

 


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

matt_himself Flag Matataland 13 Aug 15 4.19pm

Quote serial thriller at 13 Aug 2015 10.05am

Quote matt_himself at 13 Aug 2015 6.45am

Quote serial thriller at 13 Aug 2015 1.26am

Quote matt_himself at 12 Aug 2015 6.54am

Ideologically driven agenda, with no basis in the reality of economics.

[Link]

I was told once that if socialists were made to read economics, there would be no socialists.

Edited by matt_himself (12 Aug 2015 7.09am)


Because of course there's only one way of interpreting economics isn't there

There are still loads of great socialist economists out there, from David Graeber to Paul Mason, and the idea that they haven't read economics is really just insulting.

If these 'household names' of socialist economic thought were so 'great', how can none of them have come up with a working, practical alternative to capitalism? Before you say they have, they clearly haven't as capitalism rules the planet.

Furthermore, 'Socialist economics' is an oxymoron performed by a bunch of elitist professors having a circle jerk about something that will never happen.


There are hundreds of libertarian economists and yet there isn't one country on the planet which is truly libertarian. Economic theory and economic reality are miles apart, and to suggest that only practical economics gets anywhere is to show a total ignorance to the history of applied economics. For example, Marxism only really rose to prominence with the Russian revolution, which occurred decades after Marx's death. Popular economists like Hayek and Rand were really fringe thinkers when they wrote.

There is a dogmatism to your posts which I find worrying. You assume that those with a different ideological standpoint to you are merely ignorant, hence claiming that no economists can be socialist even when this flies in the face of reality. Socialism has happened, is happening and will probably happen again, yet your last paragraph highlights that you aren't willing to engage on an intellectual level with its ideas, instead wishing to smear the views held be millions, purely because they are at odds with your own.

You love brandishing us on the left as totalitarian, fascist and blinkered, but I wonder what terminology you would use of your own views on tho thread if you were to take a step back?


The fact is, and it is a fact, that free enterprise and capitalism have empowered more people in the World than socialism. Free enterprise has given more people economic freedom, social mobility and power over their own destinies than socialism. Free enterprise empowers, socialism restricts.


Edited by matt_himself (13 Aug 2015 4.34pm)

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 Aug 15 4.20pm

Quote We are goin up! at 13 Aug 2015 4.15pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 4.08pm


Indeed

At least 15% of the Parliamentary and European Party (ie the MPs elected for Labour) have to back you to get on the ballet, which means a minimum of 35 MPs.

Bloke seems popular with a large and significant percentage of those capable of voting for a new Labor leader. He's not really all that Left Wing either, just to the left of John Smith and Tony Blair (ie not a center right New Labour Old Tory).



As you've quite rightly said before, politics isn't about what you do so much as how you are perceived. As soon as you come out with bonkers ideas like nationalising energy companies and rail transport (at eye wateringly high sums that he's paying for by printing money, apparently), then you are of course going to be portrayed as a leftie.

Interestingly, I read a survey during the election that a majority of people support renationalisation of power and rail industries. Highest proportion was among UKIP supporters.

 

topcat Flag Holmesdale / Surbiton 13 Aug 15 4.22pm

Quote We are goin up! at 13 Aug 2015 4.15pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 4.08pm


Indeed

At least 15% of the Parliamentary and European Party (ie the MPs elected for Labour) have to back you to get on the ballet, which means a minimum of 35 MPs.

Bloke seems popular with a large and significant percentage of those capable of voting for a new Labor leader. He's not really all that Left Wing either, just to the left of John Smith and Tony Blair (ie not a center right New Labour Old Tory).


As you've quite rightly said before, politics isn't about what you do so much as how you are perceived. As soon as you come out with bonkers ideas like nationalising energy companies and rail transport (at eye wateringly high sums that he's paying for by printing money, apparently), then you are of course going to be portrayed as a leftie.

Why are they bonkers ideas? Neither should have been privatised in the first place. Most on the left and the right agree on this.

 


It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 13 Aug 15 4.28pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Aug 2015 3.55pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.48pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Aug 2015 3.46pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.


So where has this surge of support for someone standing on a left wing platform come from?

Not from within his own party thats for damn sure.

Yes, according to others running for the Labour leadership, being popular and having thousands of people turn up to listen to you speak including people being turned away or waiting on the street to hear you speak doesn't actually mean you're popular and can win an election. The trick is to have policies that people have already rejected, are similar to what the opposition is saying and having meetings that no one turns up to.

So what Nick, One Direction sold out Wembley Arena, and they talk utter shyte as well.

And would probably do better than Corbyn if the stood for parliment.


 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 13 Aug 15 4.34pm

Quote topcat at 13 Aug 2015 4.22pm

Quote We are goin up! at 13 Aug 2015 4.15pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 4.08pm


Indeed

At least 15% of the Parliamentary and European Party (ie the MPs elected for Labour) have to back you to get on the ballet, which means a minimum of 35 MPs.

Bloke seems popular with a large and significant percentage of those capable of voting for a new Labor leader. He's not really all that Left Wing either, just to the left of John Smith and Tony Blair (ie not a center right New Labour Old Tory).


As you've quite rightly said before, politics isn't about what you do so much as how you are perceived. As soon as you come out with bonkers ideas like nationalising energy companies and rail transport (at eye wateringly high sums that he's paying for by printing money, apparently), then you are of course going to be portrayed as a leftie.

Why are they bonkers ideas? Neither should have been privatised in the first place. Most on the left and the right agree on this.


It will cost the taxpayer £180bn to nationalise energy alone. How do you propose we pay for that?

 


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 Aug 15 4.36pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 4.28pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Aug 2015 3.55pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.48pm

Quote nickgusset at 13 Aug 2015 3.46pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 3.38pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 2.27pm

Quote dannyh at 13 Aug 2015 1.43pm

Look, even Tony Blair has come out and pleaded with Labour voters not to vote in Corbyn.

As I said vote him lefties, and you have single handedly given power to the Tories for the next......... however many years you keep him at the helm for.

Delusional, socialist fantasist who would bring the country to its knee's from a position of steady recovery, within months of his term in office (God forbid).

And if you thought the Tory’s handed Labour their collective arses to them in the last election, wait and see what happens if gets elected.

Please god let him win.


Edited by dannyh (13 Aug 2015 1.45pm)

Curiously, Blair has come out against the only major candidate who actually has stated that Blair should be held accountable over the 2003 Iraq war. Unsurprisingly, he's not a fan, and would prefer the election of someone who'd be largely indistinguishable from the corporate friendly Conservative party.

The democracy of the swing constituencies devalues the idea of politics in the UK.

Also, it shows the caliber of Blair, commenting on a leadership election. If anyone has destroyed what the Labor Party was, it was him and New Labor, a political party who's politics were based on winning election, not the representation of the labor party supporters.

He's basically handed Corbyn a lot of votes. I suspect that Corbyn will actually turn out to be less left wing than the Liberal Democrats anyhow.



HAHAHAHAHAH is that the best you've got. Dig blair out because you know I'm right about Corbyn. And it's not just blair it's pretty much the whole current labour shadow cabinet that dont want him.

Except of course Diane Abbott, who will say and literally do anything to get her fat ugly mug in the tabloids.

Vote for Corbyn, for a 12-15 year tory dominated period of government.


So where has this surge of support for someone standing on a left wing platform come from?

Not from within his own party thats for damn sure.

Yes, according to others running for the Labour leadership, being popular and having thousands of people turn up to listen to you speak including people being turned away or waiting on the street to hear you speak doesn't actually mean you're popular and can win an election. The trick is to have policies that people have already rejected, are similar to what the opposition is saying and having meetings that no one turns up to.

So what Nick, One Direction sold out Wembley Arena, and they talk utter shyte as well.

And would probably do better than Corbyn if the stood for parliment.



Hitler, Pol Pot and Mussolini sold out a few stadia too.

Fact is, there are people who want to listen to Corbyn because he represents a shift away from what we've had for the past 30 or so years.

Fact is there are examples of mass movements of people who want to turn away from the neo-liberal agenda.
yes i know it went to s*** in Greece, but lets face it, their hands were tied somewhat and they were facing the very people for who neo liberal dogma is most important. Podemas in Spain are another example of a 'left' party coming to prominence.

 

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 Aug 15 4.45pm

Quote We are goin up! at 13 Aug 2015 4.34pm

Quote topcat at 13 Aug 2015 4.22pm

Quote We are goin up! at 13 Aug 2015 4.15pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 13 Aug 2015 4.08pm


Indeed

At least 15% of the Parliamentary and European Party (ie the MPs elected for Labour) have to back you to get on the ballet, which means a minimum of 35 MPs.

Bloke seems popular with a large and significant percentage of those capable of voting for a new Labor leader. He's not really all that Left Wing either, just to the left of John Smith and Tony Blair (ie not a center right New Labour Old Tory).


As you've quite rightly said before, politics isn't about what you do so much as how you are perceived. As soon as you come out with bonkers ideas like nationalising energy companies and rail transport (at eye wateringly high sums that he's paying for by printing money, apparently), then you are of course going to be portrayed as a leftie.

Why are they bonkers ideas? Neither should have been privatised in the first place. Most on the left and the right agree on this.


It will cost the taxpayer £180bn to nationalise energy alone. How do you propose we pay for that?

Where did you pluck that figure from?

According to the Government's annual energy statement 2012, UK has a £122 billion share of the global market worth £3.3 trillion.

Now I know it's 3 years ago, but I'm pretty sure the value hasn't risen by 58 Billion in 3 years.

 

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