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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together knows this is a silly argument. Of course the result of a second vote would be respected. There is enough reality out there by now about job losses etc due to brexit that people now have a chance to make an informed decision. If it remains the will of the people, it will be delivered. MPs are struggling here because it might not currently be the will of the people any more. 2016 was the classic example of an uninformed decision. Well there isn’t going to be another vote so why not apply that magnanimous attitude to the first one.
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Well there isn’t going to be another vote so why not apply that magnanimous attitude to the first one. Who cares what anyone thinks about the first vote. Love it or hate it the first vote is a road to nowhere. Brexit is undeliverable based on the binary and overly simplistic first vote.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Who cares what anyone thinks about the first vote. Love it or hate it the first vote is a road to nowhere. Brexit is undeliverable based on the binary and overly simplistic first vote. So how will brexit be delivered on a second vote?
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together knows this is a silly argument. Of course the result of a second vote would be respected. There is enough reality out there by now about job losses etc due to brexit that people now have a chance to make an informed decision. If it remains the will of the people, it will be delivered. MPs are struggling here because it might not currently be the will of the people any more. 2016 was the classic example of an uninformed decision. I think you will find it might well be, in even greater numbers. One reason being that many who voted to remain seem to be outraged by Parliament's decision not to honour the vote.(sorry no link but I watch News/Daily Politics every day)
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| ChrisGC |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together knows this is a silly argument. Of course the result of a second vote would be respected. There is enough reality out there by now about job losses etc due to brexit that people now have a chance to make an informed decision. If it remains the will of the people, it will be delivered. MPs are struggling here because it might not currently be the will of the people any more. 2016 was the classic example of an uninformed decision. And anyone with 3 brain cells can see the flaw in this argument. Ask: would you change your vote? No. Logically, it'll come up the same. All this so called negative reality you speak of doesn't exist, the economy has grown and unemployment is at a record low for recent years. It is your opinion that the result would be different and that opinion seems to be based on the fact that the "idiots" have been told how they should've voted, so will now comply. That's not really how human psychology works. If I said: "Maine, you got it wrong. You're gullible and believed Tony Blair, aren't you a fool? You must vote again now you've seen how badly the EU has treated us, making sure you vote leave like a good boy, then we can forget all about this you thickie thickie" would you change your vote? Doubtful. Please have more respect then to think this approach would work on the combined populations of Birmingham and Glasgow: and that's just to swing a tie.
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together knows this is a silly argument. Of course the result of a second vote would be respected. There is enough reality out there by now about job losses etc due to brexit that people now have a chance to make an informed decision. If it remains the will of the people, it will be delivered. MPs are struggling here because it might not currently be the will of the people any more. 2016 was the classic example of an uninformed decision. Labour MP's have been whipped to oppose the will of the people.
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| Park Road |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Who cares what anyone thinks about the first vote. Love it or hate it the first vote is a road to nowhere. Brexit is undeliverable based on the binary and overly simplistic first vote. If that's the case why did remainers like me vote? If there was a second vote, I'd vote Brexit... just so I'm not associated with toy throwers out of prams like you... There are winners and losers Main... maybe mommy dearest should have explained that to you...but when you're spoilt you're spoilt and that's it...
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
I wonder if these MPs have ever stopped to think that they may not currently be the will of the people
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Classic comment here, DANGERCLOSE. Talking about one of the most divisive, impactful and significant moments in modern British history, which could threaten the Good Friday Agreement, and plunge the nation into a decade long super-recession. Cant understand why people get passionate about that. Should be as routine as chatting about what to have for dinner. Don't listen to project fear and think about what's at stake...Democracy...
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Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE
Don't listen to project fear and think about what's at stake...Democracy... Remainers don't want democracy and don't believe in it otherwise they would have accepted the original vote! And if a second vote does happen, leave will win by so much more. I came back from where I was residing to vote for brexit. I moved back in February this year because we are leaving and to me there are far more brexit supporters around my area since the initial referendum. So remainers keep saying everyone has changed there preference to remain is bulls*** in my opinion and from what I've seen.
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Who cares what anyone thinks about the first vote. Love it or hate it the first vote is a road to nowhere. Incorrect as ever. Mrs May ensured that it was a road to where we are because she is a Remainer. The Remainers in Parliament had no intention of allowing a proper Brexit.
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| W12 15 May 19 10.09am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Incorrect as ever. Mrs May ensured that it was a road to where we are because she is a Remainer. The Remainers in Parliament had no intention of allowing a proper Brexit. Agreed, this is parliament committing constitutional suicide. Brexit has also revealed the underlying truth that the intelligentsia (technocrats, large corporations, so called intellectuals and those in the public sector) finds the working class disgusting and no longer believes in their right to self determination. The mainstream media and all our institutions are conspired against us. They do this by dividing people along any lines they can i.e: race, gender, sexuality, religion etc and then point the finger at us for that self same division.
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Incorrect as ever. Mrs May ensured that it was a road to where we are because she is a Remainer. The Remainers in Parliament had no intention of allowing a proper Brexit. Agreed
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
So how will brexit be delivered on a second vote? Good question with an easy answer. There will be legally binding and detailed, well thought out options which already have inherent approval of parliament. This was the huge failure of the 2016 vote as there was no approved method to implement the exit. You have seen the result of that for 3 years now. Before a second vote legislation needs to be be put in place to ensure whatever option is picked there is a smooth mechanism to implement it. Be that a no deal exit, be that may’s deal, or be that remaining in the EU but with specific measures to carefully examine our standing in the EU as a lot of people clearly are unhappy with that.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
I think you will find it might well be, in even greater numbers. One reason being that many who voted to remain seem to be outraged by Parliament's decision not to honour the vote.(sorry no link but I watch News/Daily Politics every day) Kier Starmer recently said that over 150 Labour MPs wouldn’t vote for the potential agreement thrashed out between Jezza and Tezza without a so called “confirmatory vote”. That’s even if an agreement can actually be reached. Customs union is a huge sticking point. MPs are bottling it, I completely agree with you there. Hundreds of them are not willing to implement brexit as they think millions of people were conned. Ironically if the leave campaign had a little more integrity and ran a more honest effort, we might have left the EU already. People like Farage are trying to say everyone understood a vote to leave in 2016 was a vote in support of a no deal exit but I think that is a huge lie. Millions of people who voted to leave did not think they were voting for a no deal exit, they listened to David Davis and whoever else who said how easy a “deal” would be. However millions of people probably actually did vote for a no deal exit. But with enormous consequences and differences between may’s soft brexit, and a hard no deal brexit, there is no way all 17 ish million people voted for the same option. Hence MPs cannot deliver one or the other of those options. Hence you need a second vote.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Good question with an easy answer. There will be legally binding and detailed, well thought out options which already have inherent approval of parliament. This was the huge failure of the 2016 vote as there was no approved method to implement the exit. You have seen the result of that for 3 years now. Before a second vote legislation needs to be be put in place to ensure whatever option is picked there is a smooth mechanism to implement it. Be that a no deal exit, be that may’s deal, or be that remaining in the EU but with specific measures to carefully examine our standing in the EU as a lot of people clearly are unhappy with that. But Wisbech has been saying it’s the politicians’ responsibility to decide how it happens.
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
But Wisbech has been saying it’s the politicians’ responsibility to decide how it happens. Wisbech is entitled to his opinion but I don’t agree with that concept. Politicians are unable to decide, Teddy. That’s not hyperbole, it’s a fact. Look at the last 3 years. Whether or not people think a second vote will somehow reverse brexit entirely, is moot. You may absolutely love the idea of a second vote, or you may absolutely detest that idea. That matters not, as at this stage a second vote is the only route to an actual resolution one way or the other.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Kier Starmer recently said that over 150 Labour MPs wouldn’t vote for the potential agreement thrashed out between Jezza and Tezza without a so called “confirmatory vote”. That’s even if an agreement can actually be reached. Customs union is a huge sticking point. MPs are bottling it, I completely agree with you there. Hundreds of them are not willing to implement brexit as they think millions of people were conned. Ironically if the leave campaign had a little more integrity and ran a more honest effort, we might have left the EU already. People like Farage are trying to say everyone understood a vote to leave in 2016 was a vote in support of a no deal exit but I think that is a huge lie. Millions of people who voted to leave did not think they were voting for a no deal exit, they listened to David Davis and whoever else who said how easy a “deal” would be. However millions of people probably actually did vote for a no deal exit. But with enormous consequences and differences between may’s soft brexit, and a hard no deal brexit, there is no way all 17 ish million people voted for the same option. Hence MPs cannot deliver one or the other of those options. Hence you need a second vote. Agreed. I've posted on this vote split point before. Again, almost every brexiteer seems to think that their version of brexit is the one everyone else voted for. It's insane. There is research that demonstrates what the split was for the leave vote. Unlike the remain one, it was split on several different lines, No deal being one, Canada/Norway being another etc. etc. Just that fact makes a mockery of 'well they haven't delivered what I voted for'. Well even if this process had gone swimmingly there is a high chance that you would not have got what you voted for simply because of the voting split. So you're just winding yourself up really. Edited by SW19 CPFC (15 May 2019 1.52pm)
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Wisbech is entitled to his opinion but I don’t agree with that concept. Politicians are unable to decide, Teddy. That’s not hyperbole, it’s a fact. Look at the last 3 years. Whether or not people think a second vote will somehow reverse brexit entirely, is moot. You may absolutely love the idea of a second vote, or you may absolutely detest that idea. That matters not, as at this stage a second vote is the only route to an actual resolution one way or the other. It's the only way to a publically approved resolution, yes. There are plenty of scenarios that resolve without a second vote. Probably along the lines of what Liam Fox and Barclay have come out with today – Remain or No Deal. On that basis, and the basis of the vote split, Remain would theoretically have the advantage. If everyone that voted leave had voted for no deal? Then I think remain would lose.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Wisbech is entitled to his opinion but I don’t agree with that concept. Politicians are unable to decide, Teddy. That’s not hyperbole, it’s a fact. Look at the last 3 years. Whether or not people think a second vote will somehow reverse brexit entirely, is moot. You may absolutely love the idea of a second vote, or you may absolutely detest that idea. That matters not, as at this stage a second vote is the only route to an actual resolution one way or the other. No, sorry Maine I’m not buying that. However detailed the instructions and wishes were there would still be problems because of some perceived political gain on one side or the other.
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