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Stirlingsays 28 Aug 19 3.58pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Yeh, let's all go to war. Nobody gets hurt. Feckin virtual war still damages. My father and grandfather attested to the futility of war and why it should never be allowed to get to that point. Both heroes, both embittered. This has been and will be damaging to all parties involved and should never have happened. That's interesting, you saying Britain shouldn't have fought the first and second? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

28 Aug 19 3.58pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Yeh, let's all go to war. Nobody gets hurt.

Feckin virtual war still damages. My father and grandfather attested to the futility of war and why it should never be allowed to get to that point. Both heroes, both embittered.

This has been and will be damaging to all parties involved and should never have happened.

That's interesting, you saying Britain shouldn't have fought the first and second?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Mapletree Croydon 28 Aug 19 3.58pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays When the EU eventually economically collapses being outside limits our exposure. But you are right, this was never primarily about economics. If Scotland goes independent then I support that self determination......You can blame Brexit all you like but in truth it was inevitable once Blair gave them a parliament......it has always been on the clock since then. Just a matter of when. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Aug 2019 2.43pm) Right. So Germany is also going to split?

Mapletree

Croydon 28 Aug 19 3.58pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

When the EU eventually economically collapses being outside limits our exposure.

But you are right, this was never primarily about economics.

If Scotland goes independent then I support that self determination......You can blame Brexit all you like but in truth it was inevitable once Blair gave them a parliament......it has always been on the clock since then.

Just a matter of when.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Aug 2019 2.43pm)

Right. So Germany is also going to split?

Mapletree Croydon 28 Aug 19 4.03pm
So my money is on a rehashed deal which can be made to look different from May's. Cummings may now have the whip hand, for both the EU and Parliament the choice appears to be agree a new deal, hurriedly re-drawn, or there will be a crash out. I see no chance at all that Johnson wants a no-deal, which is why Farage is trying to force him into that channel. In reality it is what he always promised he would do.

Mapletree

Croydon 28 Aug 19 4.03pm

So my money is on a rehashed deal which can be made to look different from May's.

Cummings may now have the whip hand, for both the EU and Parliament the choice appears to be agree a new deal, hurriedly re-drawn, or there will be a crash out.

I see no chance at all that Johnson wants a no-deal, which is why Farage is trying to force him into that channel.

In reality it is what he always promised he would do.

Stirlingsays 28 Aug 19 4.04pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Right. So Germany is also going to split? Oranges and apples.....East Germany was a forced artificial creation from the second world war. It wasn't a country that fought for independence from a greater Germany. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

28 Aug 19 4.04pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Right. So Germany is also going to split?

Oranges and apples.....East Germany was a forced artificial creation from the second world war. It wasn't a country that fought for independence from a greater Germany.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Mapletree Croydon 28 Aug 19 4.09pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays That's interesting, you saying Britain shouldn't have fought the first and second? Feckin read will you! I am saying we screwed up long before each started. You must know the history. Make the right steps at an earlier point you don't get backed into a corner. But people have an annoying habit of 'forgetting' the damage and pain, it's all jolly exciting, hoorah chaps. As you know my grandfather was blown up, returned to hospital in England, got patched up, went back to France, got blown up again. I learned at his (artificial) knee that it was a failure of monumental proportions to get to that point. My father survived Tobruk and Monte Casino and then became best friends with a German soldier. Too many people on both sides sat on their hands as this brewed up, they didn't really care as war is really all glory and heroics.

Mapletree

Croydon 28 Aug 19 4.09pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

That's interesting, you saying Britain shouldn't have fought the first and second?

Feckin read will you!

I am saying we screwed up long before each started. You must know the history.

Make the right steps at an earlier point you don't get backed into a corner. But people have an annoying habit of 'forgetting' the damage and pain, it's all jolly exciting, hoorah chaps.

As you know my grandfather was blown up, returned to hospital in England, got patched up, went back to France, got blown up again. I learned at his (artificial) knee that it was a failure of monumental proportions to get to that point. My father survived Tobruk and Monte Casino and then became best friends with a German soldier. Too many people on both sides sat on their hands as this brewed up, they didn't really care as war is really all glory and heroics.

Mapletree Croydon 28 Aug 19 4.11pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Oranges and apples.....East Germany was a forced artificial creation from the second world war. It wasn't a country that fought for independence from a greater Germany. You may not know, Germany is a Federation of self-governing States. Really not so different is it? [Link]

Mapletree

Croydon 28 Aug 19 4.11pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Oranges and apples.....East Germany was a forced artificial creation from the second world war. It wasn't a country that fought for independence from a greater Germany.

You may not know, Germany is a Federation of self-governing States. Really not so different is it?

[Link]

Stirlingsays 28 Aug 19 4.21pm
Originally posted by Mapletree You may not know, Germany is a Federation of self-governing States. Really not so different is it? [Link] Of course I know....Germany is a relatively new country by European standards. Those states weren't forced creations like East Germany. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Aug 2019 4.21pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

28 Aug 19 4.21pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

You may not know, Germany is a Federation of self-governing States. Really not so different is it?

[Link]

Of course I know....Germany is a relatively new country by European standards.

Those states weren't forced creations like East Germany.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Aug 2019 4.21pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Gregsy Shoreham By Sea 28 Aug 19 4.21pm
I think there should be another referendum. The leave campaign leaflet I received during the last referendum said there was very little chance of leaving the Eu without a trade deal as Europe would be bending over backwards to give us a trade deal. If people had known then we would be leaving without a trade deal I think the result of the referendum would have been quite different

Gregsy

Shoreham By Sea 28 Aug 19 4.21pm

I think there should be another referendum. The leave campaign leaflet I received during the last referendum said there was very little chance of leaving the Eu without a trade deal as Europe would be bending over backwards to give us a trade deal. If people had known then we would be leaving without a trade deal I think the result of the referendum would have been quite different

davenotamonkey 28 Aug 19 4.23pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey "Reichstag" is now trending on Twitter. Not even making it up! -.-' ...and now "Dictatorship". It's just too funny I agree with Darren: [Tweet Link]

davenotamonkey

28 Aug 19 4.23pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

"Reichstag" is now trending on Twitter. Not even making it up! -.-'

...and now "Dictatorship". It's just too funny

I agree with Darren:

[Tweet Link]

Badger11 Beckenham 28 Aug 19 4.27pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Stupid idiot *The Queen does not. How dare he impute that of the Queen. Twt. She had no option given the precedent.** Correct. I don't believe that comment comes from JRM. The Queen is politically neutral and follows precedent. Her decision does not endorse Brexit but is based on advice from her PM. JRM knows that and whenever I hear him interviewed he always chooses his words carefully. If he did tweet those words then he should be in big trouble and at the minimum should make a public apology for dragging the monarchy into party politics. Like I say I don't believe he's done that. Update: Just looked at that tweet again. Its a site set up by JRM supporters and "independent" of him. So he didn't say it whoever did though is just plain wrong. Edited by Badger11 (28 Aug 2019 4.34pm) One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 28 Aug 19 4.27pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Stupid idiot

The Queen does not. How dare he impute that of the Queen. Tw*t.

She had no option given the precedent.

Correct.

I don't believe that comment comes from JRM. The Queen is politically neutral and follows precedent. Her decision does not endorse Brexit but is based on advice from her PM.

JRM knows that and whenever I hear him interviewed he always chooses his words carefully.

If he did tweet those words then he should be in big trouble and at the minimum should make a public apology for dragging the monarchy into party politics.

Like I say I don't believe he's done that.

Update: Just looked at that tweet again. Its a site set up by JRM supporters and "independent" of him. So he didn't say it whoever did though is just plain wrong.

Edited by Badger11 (28 Aug 2019 4.34pm)

One more point

Stirlingsays 28 Aug 19 4.28pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Feckin read will you! I am saying we screwed up long before each started. You must know the history. Make the right steps at an earlier point you don't get backed into a corner. But people have an annoying habit of 'forgetting' the damage and pain, it's all jolly exciting, hoorah chaps. As you know my grandfather was blown up, returned to hospital in England, got patched up, went back to France, got blown up again. I learned at his (artificial) knee that it was a failure of monumental proportions to get to that point. My father survived Tobruk and Monte Casino and then became best friends with a German soldier. Too many people on both sides sat on their hands as this brewed up, they didn't really care as war is really all glory and heroics. Sigh.....you finished making those Molotov cocktails up yet? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

28 Aug 19 4.28pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Feckin read will you!

I am saying we screwed up long before each started. You must know the history.

Make the right steps at an earlier point you don't get backed into a corner. But people have an annoying habit of 'forgetting' the damage and pain, it's all jolly exciting, hoorah chaps.

Sigh.....you finished making those Molotov cocktails up yet?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Badger11 Beckenham 28 Aug 19 4.36pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Sigh.....you finished making those Molotov cocktails up yet? If it goes quiet on hear it's because the Remainers are gathering outside Parliament tonight. No doubt we will be having another march / petition. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 28 Aug 19 4.36pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Sigh.....you finished making those Molotov cocktails up yet?

If it goes quiet on hear it's because the Remainers are gathering outside Parliament tonight.

No doubt we will be having another march / petition.

One more point

Mapletree Croydon 28 Aug 19 4.38pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Of course I know....Germany is a relatively new country by European standards. Those states weren't forced creations like East Germany. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Aug 2019 4.21pm) I didn't say they were. I said if each of the 16 States is independent like Scotland then the same logic would apply. Presumably in your mind they are going to go independent one day. Alternatively there is no inherent reason why Scotland (and Wales and Northern Ireland) could not have significant amounts of self-governing without jeopardising the UK. It's just they get annoyed when daft things are done for which they have to carry the can.

Mapletree

Croydon 28 Aug 19 4.38pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Of course I know....Germany is a relatively new country by European standards.

Those states weren't forced creations like East Germany.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Aug 2019 4.21pm)

I didn't say they were. I said if each of the 16 States is independent like Scotland then the same logic would apply. Presumably in your mind they are going to go independent one day.

Alternatively there is no inherent reason why Scotland (and Wales and Northern Ireland) could not have significant amounts of self-governing without jeopardising the UK. It's just they get annoyed when daft things are done for which they have to carry the can.

Stirlingsays 28 Aug 19 4.39pm
Originally posted by Badger11 If it goes quiet on hear it's because the Remainers are gathering outside Parliament tonight. No doubt we will be having another march / petition. Now they get a taste. Perhaps they should be made to wait forty years as well. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

28 Aug 19 4.39pm

Originally posted by Badger11

If it goes quiet on hear it's because the Remainers are gathering outside Parliament tonight.

No doubt we will be having another march / petition.

Now they get a taste.

Perhaps they should be made to wait forty years as well.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Mapletree Croydon 28 Aug 19 4.39pm
Originally posted by Badger11 If it goes quiet on hear it's because the Remainers are gathering outside Parliament tonight. No doubt we will be having another march / petition. Petition has reached 470k as we write

Mapletree

Croydon 28 Aug 19 4.39pm

Originally posted by Badger11

If it goes quiet on hear it's because the Remainers are gathering outside Parliament tonight.

No doubt we will be having another march / petition.

Petition has reached 470k as we write

Lyons550 Shirley 28 Aug 19 4.40pm
Originally posted by Mapletree So my money is on a rehashed deal which can be made to look different from May's. Cummings may now have the whip hand, for both the EU and Parliament the choice appears to be agree a new deal, hurriedly re-drawn, or there will be a crash out. I see no chance at all that Johnson wants a no-deal, which is why Farage is trying to force him into that channel. In reality it is what he always promised he would do. I hope you're right in that it forces the EU's hand and gets them 'meaningfully' back around the table...the ball is very much in their court now as to whether Brexit is a 'No deal' exit or not The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 28 Aug 19 4.40pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

So my money is on a rehashed deal which can be made to look different from May's.

Cummings may now have the whip hand, for both the EU and Parliament the choice appears to be agree a new deal, hurriedly re-drawn, or there will be a crash out.

I see no chance at all that Johnson wants a no-deal, which is why Farage is trying to force him into that channel.

In reality it is what he always promised he would do.

I hope you're right in that it forces the EU's hand and gets them 'meaningfully' back around the table...the ball is very much in their court now as to whether Brexit is a 'No deal' exit or not

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

elgrande bedford 28 Aug 19 4.40pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Feckin read will you! I am saying we screwed up long before each started. You must know the history. Make the right steps at an earlier point you don't get backed into a corner. But people have an annoying habit of 'forgetting' the damage and pain, it's all jolly exciting, hoorah chaps. As you know my grandfather was blown up, returned to hospital in England, got patched up, went back to France, got blown up again. I learned at his (artificial) knee that it was a failure of monumental proportions to get to that point. My father survived Tobruk and Monte Casino and then became best friends with a German soldier. Too many people on both sides sat on their hands as this brewed up, they didn't really care as war is really all glory and heroics. I think you will find that the average Joe on both sides were not fighting for a cause. Most were fighting to keep alive. My father too survived Monte Casino, and fighting rommel in north Africa. And the o ly ones who take glory from wars,are the generals,and such. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande

bedford 28 Aug 19 4.40pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Feckin read will you!

I am saying we screwed up long before each started. You must know the history.

Make the right steps at an earlier point you don't get backed into a corner. But people have an annoying habit of 'forgetting' the damage and pain, it's all jolly exciting, hoorah chaps.

I think you will find that the average Joe on both sides were not fighting for a cause.
Most were fighting to keep alive.
My father too survived Monte Casino, and fighting rommel in north Africa.
And the o ly ones who take glory from wars,are the generals,and such.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

Mapletree Croydon 28 Aug 19 4.41pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Sigh.....you finished making those Molotov cocktails up yet? I am moving onto milk shakes. Apparently far more dangerous.

Mapletree

Croydon 28 Aug 19 4.41pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Sigh.....you finished making those Molotov cocktails up yet?

I am moving onto milk shakes. Apparently far more dangerous.

Mapletree Croydon 28 Aug 19 5.06pm
Originally posted by elgrande I think you will find that the average Joe on both sides were not fighting for a cause. Most were fighting to keep alive. My father too survived Monte Casino, and fighting rommel in north Africa. And the o ly ones who take glory from wars,are the generals,and such. Absolutely agree. Maybe when finally they took a look at the concentration camps they realised what it was all about

Mapletree

Croydon 28 Aug 19 5.06pm

Originally posted by elgrande

Absolutely agree.

Maybe when finally they took a look at the concentration camps they realised what it was all about

Mapletree Croydon 28 Aug 19 5.07pm
Originally posted by elgrande I think you will find that the average Joe on both sides were not fighting for a cause. Most were fighting to keep alive. My father too survived Monte Casino, and fighting rommel in north Africa. And the o ly ones who take glory from wars,are the generals,and such. Dispatch rider in the 8th army by the way. Sounds like yours had similar history in terms of location. Ended up in Austria as occupying troops.

Mapletree

Croydon 28 Aug 19 5.07pm

Originally posted by elgrande

Dispatch rider in the 8th army by the way. Sounds like yours had similar history in terms of location. Ended up in Austria as occupying troops.

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