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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 YT  Oxford 14 Oct 19 6.45pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
For GEs yes, at least for the time being, although I personally hope that will change. That though is no reason at all why it cannot be used in these special circumstances if it could be shown to work. So just like the Lib Dems, you'd like to overturn both of the UK-wide referendums held in modern times because the voters got it wrong. Today Jo Swinson was sneering about the Queen's Speech, saying that it's a pointless excercise as "he" doesn't have a majority so he can't get any legislation through. Just the scenario that PR would always produce, in other words. Edited by YT (14 Oct 2019 6.50pm)
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 14 Oct 19 6.49pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That is worthy of winning the Trump prize for "Conspiracy Theory of the Year". It's the kind of mixing of half facts woven with misunderstandings that circulate all the time on the internet these days, especially on Trump supporting sites in the USA. I won't even bother to dissect it and try to point out where it's wrong. It's all wrong. Fortunately Parliament doesn't listen to this kind of thing! Unfortunately though, they don't listen to anything much. Certainly not their own constituents. None of them even dare have an election. I wonder why that might be.
Red and Blue Army! |
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cryrst  The garden of England 14 Oct 19 7.15pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You never change do you? It isn't guesswork at all. It's informed predictions which forecast a range of possibilities. As these all point in the same direction and suggest outcomes that vary from the bad to the disastrous it is only a fool who doesn't heed them. Your adage is "it'll be all right on the night". Do you see.
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| cryrst The garden of England 14 Oct 19 7.19pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That is worthy of winning the Trump prize for "Conspiracy Theory of the Year". It's the kind of mixing of half facts woven with misunderstandings that circulate all the time on the internet these days, especially on Trump supporting sites in the USA. I won't even bother to dissect it and try to point out where it's wrong. It's all wrong. Fortunately Parliament doesn't listen to this kind of thing! On the trump sites they read quotes and give tax changes to young socialists in schools.
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| cryrst The garden of England 14 Oct 19 7.22pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Hopefully with the end of free movement HRH will go back to Germany with her bunch of free-loaders in tow. In the last 6 months the monarchy has descended into being a branch office of the tory party. The Queens speech was an election broadcast by the conservative party. She ought to check her facts Brexit can't be delivered as there is not enough time to pass the necessary legislation by October 31st. Like her horses 'trained at Lewes'. If only we had a young king or queen to inject some life into the monarchy.
When queenie cops it we will have a younger monarch.
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Teddy Eagle  14 Oct 19 8.21pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Voting against the party line didn’t do Corbyn’s career any harm considering he did so over 400 times.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 8.57pm |
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Originally posted by YT
So just like the Lib Dems, you'd like to overturn both of the UK-wide referendums held in modern times because the voters got it wrong. I don't want to "overturn" anything. My hope is that at sometime our Parliament will change things because they see it is in our best interests. In the meantime I happen to think that a PR system might assist us in reconciling the current chaos. If it could do that why would anyone object? Today Jo Swinson was sneering about the Queen's Speech, saying that it's a pointless excercise as "he" doesn't have a majority so he can't get any legislation through. Just the scenario that PR would always produce, in other words. She is 100% correct. It is a very expensive and pointless exercise which will now waste Parliamentary time. The whole point was to divert attention and ask the Queen to deliver a party political broadcast in preparation for the next GE. I trust the voters, or at least those able to realise these things, don't forget this. PR would often produce the need to compromise and for parties to cooperate with each other. It would also avoid us getting governments comprised of either extreme. That has to be a good thing. /b] Edited by YT (14 Oct 2019 6.50pm)
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 14 Oct 19 8.58pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Hopefully with the end of free movement HRH will go back to Germany with her bunch of free-loaders in tow. In the last 6 months the monarchy has descended into being a branch office of the tory party. The Queens speech was an election broadcast by the conservative party. She ought to check her facts Brexit can't be delivered as there is not enough time to pass the necessary legislation by October 31st. Like her horses 'trained at Lewes'. If only we had a young king or queen to inject some life into the monarchy.
I have heard this several times today. Of course it is that's what a Queen's Speech is all about, one big PR job for the government. No once complained when Tony Blair and Gordon Brown did it. The government has the Queen read her speech and then the opposition complain about it, nothing to see here folks this has gone on for decades.
One more point |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 9.01pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Do you see. Of course it isn't. You make a prediction on known facts. You make a guess without them.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 9.05pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Voting against the party line didn’t do Corbyn’s career any harm considering he did so over 400 times. Which is why he can hardly complain when his colleagues do it to him and why the threat of deselection is so ridiculous.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 9.14pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I have heard this several times today. Of course it is that's what a Queen's Speech is all about, one big PR job for the government. No once complained when Tony Blair and Gordon Brown did it. The government has the Queen read her speech and then the opposition complain about it, nothing to see here folks this has gone on for decades. Can you really not see the difference? Queen's speeches are held after a GE and set out the planned legislative programme. They aren't held before one when there is a minority government pressing for a GE and with no hope of actually achieving any of their announced programme in the current Parliament. This was blatant opportunism and an insult both to the Queen, to Parliament and to our democratic system.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Teddy Eagle 14 Oct 19 9.17pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Which is why he can hardly complain when his colleagues do it to him and why the threat of deselection is so ridiculous. Absolutely. Merely observing that voting against party lines isn’t necessarily a career threatening move.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 14 Oct 19 9.20pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Can you really not see the difference? Queen's speeches are held after a GE and set out the planned legislative programme. They aren't held before one when there is a minority government pressing for a GE and with no hope of actually achieving any of their announced programme in the current Parliament. This was blatant opportunism and an insult both to the Queen, to Parliament and to our democratic system. The opposition is refusing to allow one. The only insult is to the British people by Remainers in Parliament.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 9.24pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Absolutely. Merely observing that voting against party lines isn’t necessarily a career threatening move. Depends who you are and who has managed to get control of the party machine. Which is one of the things I believe we need to address in the future to ensure our MPs can always vote according to the conscience and not be looking over their shoulder. I want to see all votes in the House to be secret and kept secret.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 9.34pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The opposition is refusing to allow one. The only insult is to the British people by Remainers in Parliament. Of course they aren't. They are refusing to allow one yet. Until the threat of a "no deal" Brexit has been removed. Calling one now and allowing Johnson to determine, or benefit from, the timing would be beyond stupid. It would be irresponsible. How often is it necessary to point out to you that however people originally voted the opposition is now to a "no deal" exit. Once that has been secured we can see how best we can go ahead.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Teddy Eagle 14 Oct 19 9.45pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Of course they aren't. They are refusing to allow one yet. Until the threat of a "no deal" Brexit has been removed. Calling one now and allowing Johnson to determine, or benefit from, the timing would be beyond stupid. It would be irresponsible. Refusing to allow one yet is still refusing to allow one!
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 9.51pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Refusing to allow one yet is still refusing to allow one! No it isn't. It's taking control of the timing and refusing to be goaded into irresponsible behaviour. Everyone accepts that a GE is needed. When it is best for us all is now in the hands of Parliament and not Mr Johnson.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Teddy Eagle 14 Oct 19 9.55pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No it isn't. It's taking control of the timing and refusing to be goaded into irresponsible behaviour. Everyone accepts that a GE is needed. When it is best for us all is now in the hands of Parliament and not Mr Johnson. I see. So it’s not refusing to allow an election when it’s in our best interest. Nothing to do with thinking they might not win.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 14 Oct 19 9.55pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Can you really not see the difference? Queen's speeches are held after a GE and set out the planned legislative programme. They aren't held before one when there is a minority government pressing for a GE and with no hope of actually achieving any of their announced programme in the current Parliament. This was blatant opportunism and an insult both to the Queen, to Parliament and to our democratic system. We've had minority governments before this is nothing new until Parliament call a GE the government must carry on and to do that it has to have an agenda. And on the subject of GE the opposition had the opportunity to call a GE which would have been held before 31 Oct thus negating the no deal Brexit if they won. They chose not to do so because certain MPS will lose their seats because they defected and others were not sure their party would win. It's pathetic that they now cry foul when they could have stopped this.
One more point |
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