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dannyboy1978 27 Oct 19 9.08pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I don't just deny that "mass immigration" has caused problems I deny that there has been "mass immigration". It's a term that is thrown out in the right wing press far too easily but "mass" to me means huge, overwhelming numbers and I just don't think is true. Yes, since WW2 we have witnessed various waves of immigration and since the accession of the eastern European states increasing numbers. The biggest issue is not the overall numbers but the fact that the newcomers seem to have been concentrated in specific areas. That I originally voted to remain, and continue to believe it would be, on balance, better if we did so, doesn't mean I am blind to these issues. I just think they can be handled with us inside as they are not for me an overwhelming issue. Others are more important. My grand kids will pay the price if we leave. Like many young people they have spent a lot of time in other parts of Europe, regard themselves as European and work for businesses with strong connections in Europe. They have friends all over Europe and my daughter thinks nothing of flying to Berlin for a long weekend with her old work mates there. Balancing our need for immigration with the level of the number of immigrants actually arriving is a real issue which will need to be addressed whatever the outcome of the present hiatus. Your deluded and not worth further discussion and have shown everyone on this forum how stupid you are. [Link] This is not right wing press this is the left labour home secutary. "The last Labour government predicted that only 13,000 would move to Britain from Poland and other eastern European countries after 2004." Us leavers knew all this and it has carried on with hundreds of thousands a year for 15 years. You are literally in a bubble. Nuts.

dannyboy1978

27 Oct 19 9.08pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I don't just deny that "mass immigration" has caused problems I deny that there has been "mass immigration". It's a term that is thrown out in the right wing press far too easily but "mass" to me means huge, overwhelming numbers and I just don't think is true. Yes, since WW2 we have witnessed various waves of immigration and since the accession of the eastern European states increasing numbers. The biggest issue is not the overall numbers but the fact that the newcomers seem to have been concentrated in specific areas.

That I originally voted to remain, and continue to believe it would be, on balance, better if we did so, doesn't mean I am blind to these issues. I just think they can be handled with us inside as they are not for me an overwhelming issue. Others are more important.

My grand kids will pay the price if we leave. Like many young people they have spent a lot of time in other parts of Europe, regard themselves as European and work for businesses with strong connections in Europe. They have friends all over Europe and my daughter thinks nothing of flying to Berlin for a long weekend with her old work mates there.

Balancing our need for immigration with the level of the number of immigrants actually arriving is a real issue which will need to be addressed whatever the outcome of the present hiatus.

Your deluded and not worth further discussion and have shown everyone on this forum how stupid you are.

[Link]

This is not right wing press this is the left labour home secutary.
"The last Labour government predicted that only 13,000 would move to Britain from Poland and other eastern European countries after 2004."

Us leavers knew all this and it has carried on with hundreds of thousands a year for 15 years. You are literally in a bubble.

Nuts.

cryrst The garden of England 27 Oct 19 9.38pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I don't just deny that "mass immigration" has caused problems I deny that there has been "mass immigration". It's a term that is thrown out in the right wing press far too easily but "mass" to me means huge, overwhelming numbers and I just don't think is true. Yes, since WW2 we have witnessed various waves of immigration and since the accession of the eastern European states increasing numbers. The biggest issue is not the overall numbers but the fact that the newcomers seem to have been concentrated in specific areas. That I originally voted to remain, and continue to believe it would be, on balance, better if we did so, doesn't mean I am blind to these issues. I just think they can be handled with us inside as they are not for me an overwhelming issue. Others are more important. My grand kids will pay the price if we leave. Like many young people they have spent a lot of time in other parts of Europe, regard themselves as European and work for businesses with strong connections in Europe. They have friends all over Europe and my daughter thinks nothing of flying to Berlin for a long weekend with her old work mates there. Balancing our need for immigration with the level of the number of immigrants actually arriving is a real issue which will need to be addressed whatever the outcome of the present hiatus. Well your daughter is inconsiderate. How dare you.

cryrst

The garden of England 27 Oct 19 9.38pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Balancing our need for immigration with the level of the number of immigrants actually arriving is a real issue which will need to be addressed whatever the outcome of the present hiatus.

Well your daughter is inconsiderate.
How dare you.

Spiderman Horsham 27 Oct 19 9.43pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I don't just deny that "mass immigration" has caused problems I deny that there has been "mass immigration". It's a term that is thrown out in the right wing press far too easily but "mass" to me means huge, overwhelming numbers and I just don't think is true. Yes, since WW2 we have witnessed various waves of immigration and since the accession of the eastern European states increasing numbers. The biggest issue is not the overall numbers but the fact that the newcomers seem to have been concentrated in specific areas. That I originally voted to remain, and continue to believe it would be, on balance, better if we did so, doesn't mean I am blind to these issues. I just think they can be handled with us inside as they are not for me an overwhelming issue. Others are more important. My grand kids will pay the price if we leave. Like many young people they have spent a lot of time in other parts of Europe, regard themselves as European and work for businesses with strong connections in Europe. They have friends all over Europe and my daughter thinks nothing of flying to Berlin for a long weekend with her old work mates there. Balancing our need for immigration with the level of the number of immigrants actually arriving is a real issue which will need to be addressed whatever the outcome of the present hiatus. Well perhaps she should think about her kids futures and not contribute to Climate Change

Spiderman

Horsham 27 Oct 19 9.43pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Balancing our need for immigration with the level of the number of immigrants actually arriving is a real issue which will need to be addressed whatever the outcome of the present hiatus.

Well perhaps she should think about her kids futures and not contribute to Climate Change

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Oct 19 10.46pm
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 Your deluded and not worth further discussion and have shown everyone on this forum how stupid you are. You are entitled to that opinion. Just as I am to mine which is that I have just stated an alternative way of viewing what has happened. I won't though join in the insults. [Link] This is not right wing press this is the left labour home secutary. "The last Labour government that only 13,000 would move to Britain from Poland and other eastern European countries after 2004." I know this history and the political statements of regret. That though doesn't add up to "mass" immigration does it? Us leavers knew all this and it has carried on with hundreds of thousands a year for 15 years. You are literally in a bubble. No you don't. You are making a mountain out of a hill. I recognise it's bigger than a molehill but you are attempting to turn it into something it isn't and what's more important is that it won't be that much different whether we leave or remain in the EU. Nuts. If you are referring to yourself then I reluctantly have to agree with you. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Oct 19 10.46pm

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Your deluded and not worth further discussion and have shown everyone on this forum how stupid you are.

You are entitled to that opinion. Just as I am to mine which is that I have just stated an alternative way of viewing what has happened. I won't though join in the insults.

[Link]

This is not right wing press this is the left labour home secutary.
"The last Labour government that only 13,000 would move to Britain from Poland and other eastern European countries after 2004."

I know this history and the political statements of regret. That though doesn't add up to "mass" immigration does it?

Us leavers knew all this and it has carried on with hundreds of thousands a year for 15 years. You are literally in a bubble.

No you don't. You are making a mountain out of a hill. I recognise it's bigger than a molehill but you are attempting to turn it into something it isn't and what's more important is that it won't be that much different whether we leave or remain in the EU.

Nuts.

If you are referring to yourself then I reluctantly have to agree with you.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Oct 19 10.51pm
Originally posted by Spiderman Well perhaps she should think about her kids futures and not contribute to Climate Change She of course cares a great deal for their future. She isn't though an "extinction rebellion" type, although my son-in-law is in tune with that approach. It's a good thought though. I am now wondering how they square that circle. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Oct 19 10.51pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

Well perhaps she should think about her kids futures and not contribute to Climate Change

She of course cares a great deal for their future. She isn't though an "extinction rebellion" type, although my son-in-law is in tune with that approach.

It's a good thought though. I am now wondering how they square that circle.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle 27 Oct 19 11.04pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle She of course cares a great deal for their future. She isn't though an "extinction rebellion" type, although my son-in-law is in tune with that approach. It's a good thought though. I am now wondering how they square that circle. Not many people are willing to forgo their holidays whatever the threat to the planet. To my mind if a plane is flying somewhere anyway then It might as well be full.

Teddy Eagle

27 Oct 19 11.04pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

She of course cares a great deal for their future. She isn't though an "extinction rebellion" type, although my son-in-law is in tune with that approach.

It's a good thought though. I am now wondering how they square that circle.

Not many people are willing to forgo their holidays whatever the threat to the planet. To my mind if a plane is flying somewhere anyway then It might as well be full.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Oct 19 12.00am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Not many people are willing to forgo their holidays whatever the threat to the planet. To my mind if a plane is flying somewhere anyway then It might as well be full. I agree. In my experience planes not only carry many more people than they used to they almost always fly full too. The ability we have these days to see the wonders of the world first hand, it's people and their cultures is beyond anything my parents could have dreamed of and is such an enriching experience that it has to be a net benefit to our future. I am fully on board with the need to find ways to switch to as low a fossil fuel economy as possible, changing our eating habits, protecting the oceans and rain forests, etc, etc but stopping air travel ought not to be part of it, even if it were practical to do so. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 28 Oct 19 12.00am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Not many people are willing to forgo their holidays whatever the threat to the planet. To my mind if a plane is flying somewhere anyway then It might as well be full.

I agree. In my experience planes not only carry many more people than they used to they almost always fly full too. The ability we have these days to see the wonders of the world first hand, it's people and their cultures is beyond anything my parents could have dreamed of and is such an enriching experience that it has to be a net benefit to our future.

I am fully on board with the need to find ways to switch to as low a fossil fuel economy as possible, changing our eating habits, protecting the oceans and rain forests, etc, etc but stopping air travel ought not to be part of it, even if it were practical to do so.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle 28 Oct 19 12.20am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I agree. In my experience planes not only carry many more people than they used to they almost always fly full too. The ability we have these days to see the wonders of the world first hand, it's people and their cultures is beyond anything my parents could have dreamed of and is such an enriching experience that it has to be a net benefit to our future. I am fully on board with the need to find ways to switch to as low a fossil fuel economy as possible, changing our eating habits, protecting the oceans and rain forests, etc, etc but stopping air travel ought not to be part of it, even if it were practical to do so. There is also a financial consideration. It’s often cheaper to fly from Scotland to London than it is to catch a train. Time wise there’s not much difference what with increased check in times but it can be a lot cheaper to fly into London City airport.

Teddy Eagle

28 Oct 19 12.20am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There is also a financial consideration. It’s often cheaper to fly from Scotland to London than it is to catch a train. Time wise there’s not much difference what with increased check in times but it can be a lot cheaper to fly into London City airport.

cryrst The garden of England 28 Oct 19 5.43am
When we brexit at least all of our MEPS wont keep polluting by having to go to brussels so many times.

cryrst

The garden of England 28 Oct 19 5.43am

When we brexit at least all of our MEPS wont keep polluting by having to go to brussels so many times.

dannyboy1978 28 Oct 19 6.29am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle So what do you consider mass migration to be ?

dannyboy1978

28 Oct 19 6.29am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

So what do you consider mass migration to be ?

Badger11 Beckenham 28 Oct 19 7.53am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle There is also a financial consideration. It’s often cheaper to fly from Scotland to London than it is to catch a train. Time wise there’s not much difference what with increased check in times but it can be a lot cheaper to fly into London City airport. Agreed I recently have been looking at rail fares from London to Oop North on the Virgin franchise. Somebody needs to be arrested for robbery. Even booking 2 weeks in advance on specific times most fares are north of £100. If the government is serious about climate change then it needs to do something on rail fares. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 28 Oct 19 7.53am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

There is also a financial consideration. It’s often cheaper to fly from Scotland to London than it is to catch a train. Time wise there’s not much difference what with increased check in times but it can be a lot cheaper to fly into London City airport.

Agreed I recently have been looking at rail fares from London to Oop North on the Virgin franchise. Somebody needs to be arrested for robbery. Even booking 2 weeks in advance on specific times most fares are north of £100.

If the government is serious about climate change then it needs to do something on rail fares.

One more point

Badger11 Beckenham 28 Oct 19 8.10am
Two big decisions may happen today. What extension will the EU give and do we get a GE. If the EU gives us a 3 month with the ability to Brexit early I am fine with that. The Lib Dems and the SNP are proposing an alternate date by 3 days. As long as this isn't a trap Boris should accept it as it will mean that all major parties bar Labour want a GE and Corbyn will look pretty silly voting against it. Boris is concerned that if he agrees to the Lib Dem / SNP suggestion they will sneak a change in the voting law reducing the age from 18 to 16 which will favour the left. I hope they don't as now is not the time to play politics with constitutional change. In principal I am against the idea however if we are going to make a change like this then it should be after a public debate and proper parliamentary scrutiny (something the opposition want for the Withdrawal bill). The issues as I see them are this: - 16yo's have very little life skills and mainly get their views from family and teachers. - Voting at 16 challenges other age related activities such as drinking and gambling e.g. you are old enough to vote but not drink. - The left who are so keen on this change "because 16yo's are capable of making rational decisions" will also argue that a 16yo who commits a serious crime should be treated as a child not as an adult. Well you can't have it both ways which is it? - 16yos don't tend to pay tax Anyway this is not a change to be made lightly when the public are not demanding it there has been almost no debate on the matter. Maybe we should have a referendum? Still all to play for. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 28 Oct 19 8.10am

Two big decisions may happen today. What extension will the EU give and do we get a GE.

If the EU gives us a 3 month with the ability to Brexit early I am fine with that.

The Lib Dems and the SNP are proposing an alternate date by 3 days. As long as this isn't a trap Boris should accept it as it will mean that all major parties bar Labour want a GE and Corbyn will look pretty silly voting against it.

Boris is concerned that if he agrees to the Lib Dem / SNP suggestion they will sneak a change in the voting law reducing the age from 18 to 16 which will favour the left.

I hope they don't as now is not the time to play politics with constitutional change. In principal I am against the idea however if we are going to make a change like this then it should be after a public debate and proper parliamentary scrutiny (something the opposition want for the Withdrawal bill).

The issues as I see them are this:

- 16yo's have very little life skills and mainly get their views from family and teachers.
- Voting at 16 challenges other age related activities such as drinking and gambling e.g. you are old enough to vote but not drink.
- The left who are so keen on this change "because 16yo's are capable of making rational decisions" will also argue that a 16yo who commits a serious crime should be treated as a child not as an adult. Well you can't have it both ways which is it?
- 16yos don't tend to pay tax

Anyway this is not a change to be made lightly when the public are not demanding it there has been almost no debate on the matter. Maybe we should have a referendum?

Still all to play for.

One more point

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Oct 19 8.16am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle There is also a financial consideration. It’s often cheaper to fly from Scotland to London than it is to catch a train. Time wise there’s not much difference what with increased check in times but it can be a lot cheaper to fly into London City airport. It's the same from here. We can fly from Newquay to Heathrow as cheaply as by train and much more quickly. So it's hugely more convenient. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 28 Oct 19 8.16am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

It's the same from here. We can fly from Newquay to Heathrow as cheaply as by train and much more quickly. So it's hugely more convenient.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Oct 19 8.31am
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 So what do you consider mass migration to be ? I haven't thought about that. Only that what we have now ought not to be referred to in that way. What people often forget is that it isn't just the immigrants that need to be considered, it's those of us who migrate elsewhere and those who only come here for a while as well. It's the net impact that matters. EU freedom of movement means we can go and live and work in other EU countries too, and many people do. Migration is now a world wide phenomenon. It's just a fact of life as the ability of people to travel easily has shrunk the world. We are far from alone in this and it's something I believe we won't be able to stem in any really effective way, even if it was thought desirable to do so. It's not popular with some folk in many places, with exactly the same kind of attitudes as can be found here found elsewhere too. I partly lived abroad myself for a while, but came back. Take a look at this:- [Link] For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 28 Oct 19 8.31am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

So what do you consider mass migration to be ?

I haven't thought about that. Only that what we have now ought not to be referred to in that way. What people often forget is that it isn't just the immigrants that need to be considered, it's those of us who migrate elsewhere and those who only come here for a while as well. It's the net impact that matters. EU freedom of movement means we can go and live and work in other EU countries too, and many people do.

Migration is now a world wide phenomenon. It's just a fact of life as the ability of people to travel easily has shrunk the world. We are far from alone in this and it's something I believe we won't be able to stem in any really effective way, even if it was thought desirable to do so. It's not popular with some folk in many places, with exactly the same kind of attitudes as can be found here found elsewhere too. I partly lived abroad myself for a while, but came back.

Take a look at this:-

[Link]

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Oct 19 8.40am
Originally posted by Badger11 Two big decisions may happen today. What extension will the EU give and do we get a GE. If the EU gives us a 3 month with the ability to Brexit early I am fine with that. That is reported to be what will be offered with an additional requirement that NO changes to the Withdrawal Agreement will be accepted. Which complicates things in my view. The Lib Dems and the SNP are proposing an alternate date by 3 days. As long as this isn't a trap Boris should accept it as it will mean that all major parties bar Labour want a GE and Corbyn will look pretty silly voting against it. No trap but a lock on the ability to slide through a "no deal". If Johnson refuses then there will be every reason to be very suspicious as to why. Boris is concerned that if he agrees to the Lib Dem / SNP suggestion they will sneak a change in the voting law reducing the age from 18 to 16 which will favour the left. If you watched Marr yesterday then you will know this is a non runner and won't even be attempted. There simply isn't enough time to alter the electoral rolls to achieve such a change. That's a debate for the future. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 28 Oct 19 8.40am

Originally posted by Badger11

Two big decisions may happen today. What extension will the EU give and do we get a GE.

If the EU gives us a 3 month with the ability to Brexit early I am fine with that.

That is reported to be what will be offered with an additional requirement that NO changes to the Withdrawal Agreement will be accepted. Which complicates things in my view.

No trap but a lock on the ability to slide through a "no deal". If Johnson refuses then there will be every reason to be very suspicious as to why.

Boris is concerned that if he agrees to the Lib Dem / SNP suggestion they will sneak a change in the voting law reducing the age from 18 to 16 which will favour the left.

If you watched Marr yesterday then you will know this is a non runner and won't even be attempted. There simply isn't enough time to alter the electoral rolls to achieve such a change. That's a debate for the future.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle 28 Oct 19 8.45am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It's the same from here. We can fly from Newquay to Heathrow as cheaply as by train and much more quickly. So it's hugely more convenient. It’ll be even more convenient when Crossrail is fully operational- should that day ever come.

Teddy Eagle

28 Oct 19 8.45am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It's the same from here. We can fly from Newquay to Heathrow as cheaply as by train and much more quickly. So it's hugely more convenient.

It’ll be even more convenient when Crossrail is fully operational- should that day ever come.

cryrst The garden of England 28 Oct 19 9.36am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I thought no deal is part of A50. How can that be changed if it is written in.

Badger11 Beckenham 28 Oct 19 9.38am
EU confirms end of Jan date with early release clause if deal is ratified. Now over to Labour, a no deal Brexit is off the table until 31 Jan so why not have a GE? One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 28 Oct 19 9.38am

EU confirms end of Jan date with early release clause if deal is ratified.

Now over to Labour, a no deal Brexit is off the table until 31 Jan so why not have a GE?

One more point

steeleye20 Croydon 28 Oct 19 9.42am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The young are far more intelligent and aware of life than elderly selfish mostly retired people. They should vote from 13 years old. Society would benefit with an inclusive labour government for the many, not just selfish old gits and corporations.

steeleye20

Croydon 28 Oct 19 9.42am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The young are far more intelligent and aware of life than elderly selfish mostly retired people.

They should vote from 13 years old.

Society would benefit with an inclusive labour government for the many, not just selfish old gits and corporations.

Badger11 Beckenham 28 Oct 19 9.49am
Originally posted by steeleye20 The young are far more intelligent and aware of life than elderly selfish mostly retired people. They should vote from 13 years old. Society would benefit with an inclusive labour government for the many, not just selfish old gits and corporations. Anyone over 70 should be banned from voting? Well that wipes out the House of Lords and a lot of the Commons including one J. Corbyn. You maybe onto to something Steeleye. By the way young people can be just as selfish and short-sighted as us old gits. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 28 Oct 19 9.49am

Originally posted by steeleye20

The young are far more intelligent and aware of life than elderly selfish mostly retired people.

They should vote from 13 years old.

Society would benefit with an inclusive labour government for the many, not just selfish old gits and corporations.

Anyone over 70 should be banned from voting? Well that wipes out the House of Lords and a lot of the Commons including one J. Corbyn.

You maybe onto to something Steeleye.

By the way young people can be just as selfish and short-sighted as us old gits.

One more point

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