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June 14 2024 2.22am

Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 16 Mar 22 5.13pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

180?

Only once.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 16 Mar 22 5.21pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by The groover

With regard to the alleged far right in Ukraine. They polled 1.6% in the last election and have zero seats. Hardly a close run thing either.

There are probably more right wing supporters in the UK, Italy and Germany than Ukraine.

Extremists make a lot of noise making out that they are well supported when the reality is that they are just that. Extremists.

I've always taken that, more specifically with the far right, for them to justify beliefs or world views they hold as the vast majority of people would think otherwise.

For example: 'All my neo Nazi, religious extremist, Left wing bo**ocks etc nonsense on [insert social media platform] have 2,000 likes, therefore I must be on to something as there are at the very least others who share my views.'

As opposed to: 'Of all the millions of those who have heard, seen or are aware of my views only a couple thousand agree, which is an astonishingly low proportion of people.'

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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BlueJay Flag UK 16 Mar 22 6.16pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I've always taken that, more specifically with the far right, for them to justify beliefs or world views they hold as the vast majority of people would think otherwise.

For example: 'All my neo Nazi, religious extremist, Left wing bo**ocks etc nonsense on [insert social media platform] have 2,000 likes, therefore I must be on to something as there are at the very least others who share my views.'

As opposed to: 'Of all the millions of those who have heard, seen or are aware of my views only a couple thousand agree, which is an astonishingly low proportion of people.'

Well observed, they all operate on the same (life) support system basis. And it also brings about a tendency to drift to further extremes or levels of 'purity' (which are present in unworkable wish list outlooks on the left and right alike - from people demanding your Nan learns 97 pronouns, to those who want to ship Tyrone back to his 'homeland' despite being born here, because he's the wrong colour) to be at the forefront of said support.

After a time it leads to people seriously misjudging what the typical person actually believes (as the echo chamber mentality goes next level), or developing a dislike towards people with typical ideas about society and sensible, workable attitudes towards other people. The Internet has done a lot of good for society, but there is no doubt that this 'create your own reality' aspect of it has done more harm than good.

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 16 Mar 22 6.28pm

Why I should have listened to Garry Kasparov about Putin - [Link]

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 16 Mar 22 6.44pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Why I should have listened to Garry Kasparov about Putin - [Link]

He's crap a chess !

 

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View The groover's Profile The groover Flag Danbury 16 Mar 22 6.47pm Send a Private Message to The groover Add The groover as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Well observed, they all operate on the same (life) support system basis. And it also brings about a tendency to drift to further extremes or levels of 'purity' (which are present in unworkable wish list outlooks on the left and right alike - from people demanding your Nan learns 97 pronouns, to those who want to ship Tyrone back to his 'homeland' despite being born here, because he's the wrong colour) to be at the forefront of said support.

After a time it leads to people seriously misjudging what the typical person actually believes (as the echo chamber mentality goes next level), or developing a dislike towards people with typical ideas about society and sensible, workable attitudes towards other people. The Internet has done a lot of good for society, but there is no doubt that this 'create your own reality' aspect of it has done more harm than good.

Its also the sounding board scenario which also happened with Brexit and the Election. All sides convinced they would win because everyone they talk to agrees with them. The fact that they exclusively talk/chat with like minded souls is neither hear nor there.

I have fun calling out BS posted on Facebook etc, don't care which side its from BS is BS! I get called a lefty and a fascist.

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 16 Mar 22 7.40pm

Originally posted by The groover

I have fun calling out BS posted on Facebook etc, don't care which side its from BS is BS! I get called a lefty and a fascist.

Yes, I've had the same. I don't even go out of my way to bother discussing politics in real life now, because we all know 'that person' who sucks the joy and oxygen out of the room with a bombardment of opinions. Life has been difficult enough of late . Online's a bit different as its opt in. Beyond a point, on social media with the echo chamber stuff you have to try to find the humour in it all, left and right, because it gets cult-like so its not like anyones going to listen to pros and cons of anything anyway.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 16 Mar 22 7.48pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by The groover

Its also the sounding board scenario which also happened with Brexit and the Election. All sides convinced they would win because everyone they talk to agrees with them. The fact that they exclusively talk/chat with like minded souls is neither hear nor there.

I have fun calling out BS posted on Facebook etc, don't care which side its from BS is BS! I get called a lefty and a fascist.

Glad I am not the only one who shares this experience. The echo chamber effect has a lot to answer for! If you are able to create some sort of vacuum in reality based around a singular perspective of the world it's only ever going to have a severe detriment to your mental health, surely?

I've been seriously stunned by myself sometimes how a bit of internet reading or watching etc can get you 'hyped' about a certain idea(s), then further shocked when faced with a situation in which I do not represent what I had previously indulged in or just in general, leave the house, into reality, and reflect, somewhat acknowledging 'wow I got really caught up in that briefly' as though I'd been momentarily, psychologically hijacked.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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BlueJay Flag UK 16 Mar 22 8.13pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Glad I am not the only one who shares this experience. The echo chamber effect has a lot to answer for! If you are able to create some sort of vacuum in reality based around a singular perspective of the world it's only ever going to have a severe detriment to your mental health, surely?

I've been seriously stunned by myself sometimes how a bit of internet reading or watching etc can get you 'hyped' about a certain idea(s), then further shocked when faced with a situation in which I do not represent what I had previously indulged in or just in general, leave the house, into reality, and reflect, somewhat acknowledging 'wow I got really caught up in that briefly' as though I'd been momentarily, psychologically hijacked.

Yes, it's dangerous and you have to consider that many eventually do not ever have that 'snap out of it' moment. A fair few people have essentially 'lost someone' to some rabbit hole they disappeared down that they never came back from, because it changed them in some unfortunate way.

Not that I'm saying it's even possible to be entirely balanced, or that's even wholly good anyway. More that surrounding ourselves with a good cross section of decent people in real life, and avoiding leaning into our own failings or emotions as way of avoiding getting lured into echo chambers that align with them, seems like a good foundation.

At the fringes it's so absurdly 'you believe A so I'll believe B' to a fault, that it's almost self evident how unworkable some worldviews are in a wider setting. I'm not sure what happened to valuing person achievements and good character, rather than being part of something so 'virtual' and fundamentally antisocial. Social media though is heavily geared to keeping eyeballs on screens though, and the cheapest, easiest way of doing so is through anger and disagreement and giving people whatever their algorithm deduces is their drug of choice. It all becomes a bit of a feedback loop that rewires the brain I fear.

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 16 Mar 22 10.48pm

"The irony of the situation,” the head of the [Kharkiv] museum’s foreign art department told Reuters, “is that we are having to save Russian artists’ works from their own people.”

Everyone else is able to benefits from this war except those directly involved. Ukraine has been bombed so heavily they'll havw to rely on NATO to rebuild (in closer alignment with EU institutions). And Russia will be tied economically to China, used as a pound shop energy equivalent.

Edited by BlueJay (17 Mar 2022 12.25am)

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 17 Mar 22 12.41am

"The theater in Mariupol, Ukraine, targeted in an alleged Russian attack on Wednesday had the word "CHILDREN" written largely in Russian on the pavement outside, according to satellite images.

The theater was serving as a shelter for hundreds of civilian refugees, including many children, in the embattled city of Mariupol, which has been left without water, heat, and food for several days amid Russia's escalating attack.

The theater was bombed by Russian forces on March 16.

Maxar satellite images of the theater show the word "CHILDREN" written in large, white, Cyrillic letters on two sides of the building — a possible attempt to alert Russian forces to the presence of young civilians hiding inside. "

Edited by BlueJay (17 Mar 2022 12.59am)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 17 Mar 22 3.17am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Well observed, they all operate on the same (life) support system basis. And it also brings about a tendency to drift to further extremes or levels of 'purity' (which are present in unworkable wish list outlooks on the left and right alike - from people demanding your Nan learns 97 pronouns, to those who want to ship Tyrone back to his 'homeland' despite being born here, because he's the wrong colour) to be at the forefront of said support.

After a time it leads to people seriously misjudging what the typical person actually believes (as the echo chamber mentality goes next level), or developing a dislike towards people with typical ideas about society and sensible, workable attitudes towards other people. The Internet has done a lot of good for society, but there is no doubt that this 'create your own reality' aspect of it has done more harm than good.

The typical person isn't particularly political and they 'believe' what the media feed to them. The proof of this is historical and can even be seen in Russia now....just as I believe it can be seen here as well.

The control of language is used to convince people that there is a kind of moral superiority in concepts, which is a kind of 'end of history' make believe, as in reality those concepts just push whatever agendas the elites of the current power structure desire.

I keep hearing how what I think is on the 'fringe', yet at the same time I'm told that those ideas aren't allowed to be spread and should be banned from the political process. It's also ignored that I don't have a single idea that wasn't held commonly only decades ago.

For myself I try to ignore the language and look at the practical outcomes of the politics. That is what took me from the centralist positions that the media and politicians, you regard as normal, sold to me back....and instead travel back to the social conservativism that use to be commonplace in this once socially cohesive country.

I'm not interested in what's popular. I'm interested in inching as close to what's true as possible.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Mar 2022 3.40am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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