General Election 2017

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General Election 2017

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 12 Jun 17 4.14pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Corbyn spent all his political life campaigning to leave the EU, as he took the Bennite line that it was just a capitalist club (a view I would agree with). It was only when he became leader of the Labour party that he had the apparent 'road to Damasucs' conversion to Remain. Haha. Not sure he had much of a conversion. His campaigning in this election compared with the EU ref shows what he is capable of when campaigning for policies in which he genuinely believes.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 12 Jun 17 4.14pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Corbyn spent all his political life campaigning to leave the EU, as he took the Bennite line that it was just a capitalist club (a view I would agree with). It was only when he became leader of the Labour party that he had the apparent 'road to Damasucs' conversion to Remain.

Haha. Not sure he had much of a conversion. His campaigning in this election compared with the EU ref shows what he is capable of when campaigning for policies in which he genuinely believes.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 12 Jun 17 4.16pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I agree, but it currently doesn't. MP's are in danger of betraying those who voted for a meaningful Brexit. Reckless and Carswell both had by-elections when they defected and so did Goldsmith when he went independent.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 12 Jun 17 4.16pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I agree, but it currently doesn't.

MP's are in danger of betraying those who voted for a meaningful Brexit.

Reckless and Carswell both had by-elections when they defected and so did Goldsmith when he went independent.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 12 Jun 17 4.21pm
Originally posted by Mstrobez David Davies now coming out with a brexit message even more confusing than before (didn't think that would be possible), stressing the importance of getting the best deal and making this a success for the "100%". Anyone care to enlighten me what exactly that means? Farage to return and I think the divisions in this country are set to get even more poisonous. I must admit I've changed my mind about brexit more times than I can count but the one thought I keep returning to is the fact that we seemed to be obsessed with "being just fine" which kind of makes you wonder what the point of all this uncertainty ever was in the first place. Apparently Davies was unaware that we couldn't make deals with anyone outside of the EU until we had officially left! He also said we could make a unilateral deal with Germany, which of course we cannot.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 12 Jun 17 4.21pm

Originally posted by Mstrobez

David Davies now coming out with a brexit message even more confusing than before (didn't think that would be possible), stressing the importance of getting the best deal and making this a success for the "100%". Anyone care to enlighten me what exactly that means? Farage to return and I think the divisions in this country are set to get even more poisonous. I must admit I've changed my mind about brexit more times than I can count but the one thought I keep returning to is the fact that we seemed to be obsessed with "being just fine" which kind of makes you wonder what the point of all this uncertainty ever was in the first place. Apparently Davies was unaware that we couldn't make deals with anyone outside of the EU until we had officially left!

He also said we could make a unilateral deal with Germany, which of course we cannot.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 12 Jun 17 4.25pm
Originally posted by crystal balls I think it would be reasonable to draw the conclusion that a number of those who voted for leave did so,not with a specific type of exit in mind, but as a protest against Cameron/Osborne and their misguided austerity program, or any other particular beef they may have had with the then government. The number of voters who favour a hard exit are extremely unlikely to be in the majority. I agree with this. Many people voted as a protest against the political classes. An anti-establishment vote if you will, but without much thought as to the intricacies of what a post-Brexit Britain would actually look like. Some people I know also believed that voting for Brexit would accelerate the downfall of the Tories (and quite possibly could be right).

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 12 Jun 17 4.25pm

Originally posted by crystal balls

I think it would be reasonable to draw the conclusion that a number of those who voted for leave did so,not with a specific type of exit in mind, but as a protest against Cameron/Osborne and their misguided austerity program, or any other particular beef they may have had with the then government.

The number of voters who favour a hard exit are extremely unlikely to be in the majority.

I agree with this. Many people voted as a protest against the political classes. An anti-establishment vote if you will, but without much thought as to the intricacies of what a post-Brexit Britain would actually look like. Some people I know also believed that voting for Brexit would accelerate the downfall of the Tories (and quite possibly could be right).

Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jun 17 4.28pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Yes small numbers will make a big difference in current parliament. Issue perhaps is that the current parliament may be very short! In which case most I would imagine will be quite keen to protect their interests. I could imagine that this would be more likely the longer the parliament goes on, but I can't see it happening in the next 12-18 months. This might be so. It is also possible to apply pressure from within the Tory Party of course, which could be the better personal choice. Of course a capitulation to the Remainers could result in a big defeat at the next election anyway, so there are good reasons to push for a full Brexit from that reason in itself.

Hrolf The Ganger

12 Jun 17 4.28pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Yes small numbers will make a big difference in current parliament. Issue perhaps is that the current parliament may be very short! In which case most I would imagine will be quite keen to protect their interests.

I could imagine that this would be more likely the longer the parliament goes on, but I can't see it happening in the next 12-18 months.

This might be so. It is also possible to apply pressure from within the Tory Party of course, which could be the better personal choice.
Of course a capitulation to the Remainers could result in a big defeat at the next election anyway, so there are good reasons to push for a full Brexit from that reason in itself.

Kermit8 Hevon 12 Jun 17 4.39pm
The Hard Brexiteers will consist of the 14% who voted for UKIP at the 2015 General Election and....well, just them really. So the country is pushed toward being worse off, possible renewal of troubles in Northern Ireland, long-term instability, economic woes, etc, because of a bunch of ultra-right fantasists. let's hope, whatever it takes, their day doesn't come and we go soft all the way. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 12 Jun 17 4.39pm

The Hard Brexiteers will consist of the 14% who voted for UKIP at the 2015 General Election and....well, just them really.

So the country is pushed toward being worse off, possible renewal of troubles in Northern Ireland, long-term instability, economic woes, etc, because of a bunch of ultra-right fantasists.

let's hope, whatever it takes, their day doesn't come and we go soft all the way.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 12 Jun 17 4.44pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger This might be so. It is also possible to apply pressure from within the Tory Party of course, which could be the better personal choice. Of course a capitulation to the Remainers could result in a big defeat at the next election anyway, so there are good reasons to push for a full Brexit from that reason in itself. Quite possibly. Interestingly the Sun think there is a majority in the commons in favour of a "soft Brexit" (this tweet from their political editor): [Tweet Link] Also interestingly: George Freeman, the Conservative MP who chairs Theresa May’s policy forum, has posted a tweet saying the government should drop its “hard Brexit” message. Hmmmm. Interesting times ahead. Annoyingly we might have to wait to find out anything whatsoever about what Brexit actually means. Other than "Brexit" of course.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 12 Jun 17 4.44pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Quite possibly.

Interestingly the Sun think there is a majority in the commons in favour of a "soft Brexit" (this tweet from their political editor):

[Tweet Link]

Also interestingly:

George Freeman, the Conservative MP who chairs Theresa May’s policy forum, has posted a tweet saying the government should drop its “hard Brexit” message.

Hmmmm. Interesting times ahead. Annoyingly we might have to wait to find out anything whatsoever about what Brexit actually means. Other than "Brexit" of course.

jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Jun 17 4.49pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I'm not sure they ever wanted to end immigration, just reduce it and banning the Burka, although difficult in practice is correct by western standards of morally. No one should be forced either directly or with indoctrination to cover from head to foot. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (12 Jun 2017 3.39pm) Quite agree, but its an odd policy to push given around 1 or 2% of the UK Muslim population have adopted its use - especially when there probably were more pressing policy matters to focus on. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 12 Jun 17 4.49pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I'm not sure they ever wanted to end immigration, just reduce it and banning the Burka, although difficult in practice is correct by western standards of morally. No one should be forced either directly or with indoctrination to cover from head to foot.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (12 Jun 2017 3.39pm)

Quite agree, but its an odd policy to push given around 1 or 2% of the UK Muslim population have adopted its use - especially when there probably were more pressing policy matters to focus on.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Lyons550 Shirley 12 Jun 17 4.51pm
This could of course be a double bluff...making the EU think we're going to be hard as nails when in fact we'll take them by surprise but asking for far more reasonable compromises and getting agreement straight away.... The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 12 Jun 17 4.51pm

This could of course be a double bluff...making the EU think we're going to be hard as nails when in fact we'll take them by surprise but asking for far more reasonable compromises and getting agreement straight away....

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

hedgehog50 Croydon 12 Jun 17 4.54pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Who would have thought, only a few days ago, that the Queen's speech would be delayed to suit a band of Irish nut-cases? Apparently the delay is partly due to the ink taking several days to dry on the goatskin vellum that the Queen's speech is written on - it is the Nanny State gone mad. Edited by hedgehog50 (12 Jun 2017 4.54pm) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 12 Jun 17 4.54pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Who would have thought, only a few days ago, that the Queen's speech would be delayed to suit a band of Irish nut-cases?

Apparently the delay is partly due to the ink taking several days to dry on the goatskin vellum that the Queen's speech is written on - it is the Nanny State gone mad.

Edited by hedgehog50 (12 Jun 2017 4.54pm)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

Kermit8 Hevon 12 Jun 17 4.55pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Quite possibly. Interestingly the Sun think there is a majority in the commons in favour of a "soft Brexit" (this tweet from their political editor): [Tweet Link] Also interestingly: George Freeman, the Conservative MP who chairs Theresa May’s policy forum, has posted a tweet saying the government should drop its “hard Brexit” message. Hmmmm. Interesting times ahead. Annoyingly we might have to wait to find out anything whatsoever about what Brexit actually means. Other than "Brexit" of course. If they were allowed a free vote the 'soft' option figure would be a great deal higher than that.as over 450 MPs were for 'Remain' only 12 months ago. And I would hope more than 25 Tories would rebel if May was still in the chair. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 12 Jun 17 4.55pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Quite possibly.

Interestingly the Sun think there is a majority in the commons in favour of a "soft Brexit" (this tweet from their political editor):

[Tweet Link]

Also interestingly:

George Freeman, the Conservative MP who chairs Theresa May’s policy forum, has posted a tweet saying the government should drop its “hard Brexit” message.

Hmmmm. Interesting times ahead. Annoyingly we might have to wait to find out anything whatsoever about what Brexit actually means. Other than "Brexit" of course.

If they were allowed a free vote the 'soft' option figure would be a great deal higher than that.as over 450 MPs were for 'Remain' only 12 months ago. And I would hope more than 25 Tories would rebel if May was still in the chair.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jun 17 5.04pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Quite agree, but its an odd policy to push given around 1 or 2% of the UK Muslim population have adopted its use - especially when there probably were more pressing policy matters to focus on. Morally right is still right regardless of numbers, and it is a visible symbol of the negative cultural aspects of immigration. It is fair to say that there are plenty of other issues around mass immigration that need recognising and which might have been highlighted better. UKIP did seem very Mickey Mouse without strong leadership and focus.

Hrolf The Ganger

12 Jun 17 5.04pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Quite agree, but its an odd policy to push given around 1 or 2% of the UK Muslim population have adopted its use - especially when there probably were more pressing policy matters to focus on.

Morally right is still right regardless of numbers, and it is a visible symbol of the negative cultural aspects of immigration.
It is fair to say that there are plenty of other issues around mass immigration that need recognising and which might have been highlighted better.

UKIP did seem very Mickey Mouse without strong leadership and focus.

steeleye20 Croydon 12 Jun 17 5.06pm
Mrs May and her 'terms' over brexit could anything be more farcical. The EU has been watching, she sought a country unified behind her for brexit. She did not get it did she? Britain in a state of complete delusion.

steeleye20

Croydon 12 Jun 17 5.06pm

Mrs May and her 'terms' over brexit could anything be more farcical.

The EU has been watching, she sought a country unified behind her for brexit.

She did not get it did she?

Britain in a state of complete delusion.

Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jun 17 5.08pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Quite possibly. Interestingly the Sun think there is a majority in the commons in favour of a "soft Brexit" (this tweet from their political editor): [Tweet Link] Also interestingly: George Freeman, the Conservative MP who chairs Theresa May’s policy forum, has posted a tweet saying the government should drop its “hard Brexit” message. Hmmmm. Interesting times ahead. Annoyingly we might have to wait to find out anything whatsoever about what Brexit actually means. Other than "Brexit" of course. Remainers have always had the majority in Parliament but it is the greater Party interests that dictate, at least so far. And the knock on effect for their own sorry arses of course.

Hrolf The Ganger

12 Jun 17 5.08pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Quite possibly.

Interestingly the Sun think there is a majority in the commons in favour of a "soft Brexit" (this tweet from their political editor):

[Tweet Link]

Also interestingly:

George Freeman, the Conservative MP who chairs Theresa May’s policy forum, has posted a tweet saying the government should drop its “hard Brexit” message.

Hmmmm. Interesting times ahead. Annoyingly we might have to wait to find out anything whatsoever about what Brexit actually means. Other than "Brexit" of course.

Remainers have always had the majority in Parliament but it is the greater Party interests that dictate, at least so far. And the knock on effect for their own sorry arses of course.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 12 Jun 17 5.10pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Mrs May and her 'terms' over brexit could anything be more farcical. The EU has been watching, she sought a country unified behind her for brexit. She did not get it did she? Britain in a state of complete delusion. [Link] This article makes that point quite well.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 12 Jun 17 5.10pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Mrs May and her 'terms' over brexit could anything be more farcical.

The EU has been watching, she sought a country unified behind her for brexit.

She did not get it did she?

Britain in a state of complete delusion.

[Link]

This article makes that point quite well.

Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jun 17 5.15pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Mrs May and her 'terms' over brexit could anything be more farcical. The EU has been watching, she sought a country unified behind her for brexit. She did not get it did she? Britain in a state of complete delusion. And you gloat at the prospect of Britain having it's position compromised. That's all we need to know about your motives.

Hrolf The Ganger

12 Jun 17 5.15pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Mrs May and her 'terms' over brexit could anything be more farcical.

The EU has been watching, she sought a country unified behind her for brexit.

She did not get it did she?

Britain in a state of complete delusion.

And you gloat at the prospect of Britain having it's position compromised.
That's all we need to know about your motives.

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 Jun 17 5.24pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger And you gloat at the prospect of Britain having it's position compromised. That's all we need to know about your motives. It's a difficult balance twixt schadenfreude and despair.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 12 Jun 17 5.24pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

And you gloat at the prospect of Britain having it's position compromised.
That's all we need to know about your motives.

It's a difficult balance twixt schadenfreude and despair.

hedgehog50 Croydon 12 Jun 17 5.54pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Mrs May and her 'terms' over brexit could anything be more farcical. The EU has been watching, she sought a country unified behind her for brexit. She did not get it did she? Britain in a state of complete delusion. Deluded about what? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 12 Jun 17 5.54pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Mrs May and her 'terms' over brexit could anything be more farcical.

The EU has been watching, she sought a country unified behind her for brexit.

She did not get it did she?

Britain in a state of complete delusion.

Deluded about what?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

kenbarr Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 12 Jun 17 6.27pm
At the very least the DUP want a relatively open border with the Republic since it is a provision of the Good Friday agreement. From a BBC.com post: "On Brexit, the DUP want the border with the Irish Republic to be as 'seamless and frictionless' as possible,' and they reject the Special EU status championed by Sinn Féin, which they regard as watering down Northern Ireland's Britishness." See [Link] They do have problems in Stormont and could be using the Westminster situation to divert attention. Divorced...And LOVING it! VJRAM Rev. CPFC since Boxing Day 1989 CPFC 2-2 CFC Gregg Berhalter, US International & USMNT Head Coach Jill Ellis, England International & Retired USWNT Head Coach Trevor Francis, International PRAT

kenbarr

Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 12 Jun 17 6.27pm

At the very least the DUP want a relatively open border with the Republic since it is a provision of the Good Friday agreement. From a BBC.com post:

"On Brexit, the DUP want the border with the Irish Republic to be as 'seamless and frictionless' as possible,' and they reject the Special EU status championed by Sinn Féin, which they regard as watering down Northern Ireland's Britishness."

See [Link]

They do have problems in Stormont and could be using the Westminster situation to divert attention.

Divorced...And LOVING it!
VJRAM Rev.
CPFC since Boxing Day 1989 CPFC 2-2 CFC
Gregg Berhalter, US International & USMNT Head Coach
Jill Ellis, England International & Retired USWNT Head Coach
Trevor Francis, International PRAT

steeleye20 Croydon 12 Jun 17 6.35pm
Originally posted by kenbarr At the very least the DUP want a relatively open border with the Republic since it is a provision of the Good Friday agreement. From a BBC.com post: "On Brexit, the DUP want the border with the Irish Republic to be as 'seamless and frictionless' as possible,' and they reject the Special EU status championed by Sinn Féin, which they regard as watering down Northern Ireland's Britishness." See [Link] They do have problems in Stormont and could be using the Westminster situation to divert attention. Westminster has to be neutral according to the Good Friday agreement it is dificult to see how they can be if they are in cahoots with the DUP. It would be surprising if Sinn Fein resume Stormont in that case. 20 years hard work could be undone by Mrs May to stay in power.

steeleye20

Croydon 12 Jun 17 6.35pm

Originally posted by kenbarr

At the very least the DUP want a relatively open border with the Republic since it is a provision of the Good Friday agreement. From a BBC.com post:

See [Link]

They do have problems in Stormont and could be using the Westminster situation to divert attention.

Westminster has to be neutral according to the Good Friday agreement it is dificult to see how they can be if they are in cahoots with the DUP.

It would be surprising if Sinn Fein resume Stormont in that case.

20 years hard work could be undone by Mrs May to stay in power.

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