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Can we adopt our 1861 date of birth?
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 YT  Oxford 19 Dec 18 5.52pm |
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Originally posted by Sansbup
Also, when there was only one club, who did they play against? Great thread by the way, excellent cachet in being the world's oldest club! No one. It was our best-ever unbeaten run.
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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| chris123 hove actually 19 Dec 18 5.57pm |
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I'm sure if there's more historical info available through digitisation of old newspapers, the history of other clubs will be rewritten too.
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| ex hibitionist Hastings 20 Dec 18 11.22am |
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Originally posted by Sansbup
Also, when there was only one club, who did they play against? Great thread by the way, excellent cachet in being the world's oldest club! we had some feisty derbies against Brighton Pavillion apparently, their players started the trend for big moustaches and tight knickerbockers according to chapter thirteen
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| ex hibitionist Hastings 20 Dec 18 11.25am |
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Originally posted by bexleydave
Those involved in the formation of this club did not attempt to claim any link to the former club of the same name, and that was just 29 years after the other club became defunct, when the history would have been a lot clearer. We celebrated our centenary in 2005, not 1961 and we have 1905 on our badge. The suggestion that, because the club shop have elected to stock this latest learned tome, suggests an endorsement by the club of its contents is entirely specious. It is the equivalent of suggesting that bookshops that sell Nietzsche or music shops that stock Wagner tacitly endorse their repulsive ideas. If we were to suddenly try to claim to be the oldest football club in the world, after 113 years, we wouldn't receive opposition, it would be much worse. We'd be the laughing stock of the entire football universe and, let's face it, we've proved that we're quite capable of that lately, without adding any more fuel to the fire. Edited by bexleydave (20 Dec 2018 7.45am) claiming we're the oldest club in the world would be like saying Sainsbury's are mad because they sell nuts, crackers and bananas, I am in complete agreement on this issue, 1905 it is
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| YT Oxford 20 Dec 18 12.56pm |
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Originally posted by Aquilachrysaetos
My mother (86), a keen genealogist who has no interest in football and has never been near the internet, often tells me about my great great grandfather Reg Blackshill (possibly spelt differently). Apparently he was a foreman for a construction company (supposedly building The Crystal Palace) and he formed the Crystal Palace Football team from a group of workers sometime in the mid-to-late 1800s. I've never found his name mentioned online but the story is embedded in our family folklore. As is the way of such things, the story has probably been embellished but it would be lovely to think one of my ancestors helped to found the club I've supported avidly all my life. If anyone can shed any further light on this I'd be very happy. At last I know who to blame for a lifetime of football torment (well, since 1972). Old ‘Reg’.
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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| Phil O'Sophical 20 Dec 18 7.27pm |
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Originally posted by bexleydave
Those involved in the formation of this club did not attempt to claim any link to the former club of the same name, and that was just 29 years after the other club became defunct, when the history would have been a lot clearer. The professional club did recognise its earlier links with the amateur club and didn't suggest they were a separate club. In its first handbook in 1906, recalling its past amateur history, the professional club said 'The Crystal Palace Football Team have supplied three internationals, but it occurred in the years 1873 and 1876. In the former year A Morton was included in the international between England and Scotland, and in 1876 A.H. Savage and C.E. Smith represented the old country against Scotland.' The handbook just refers to the Crystal Palace Football Team, i.e. the amateur and professional sides were both the 'Crystal Palace Football Team', the only difference being that one was amateur and one was professional.
The crowd is outstanding, and especially with the penalty after 44 minutes it was clear when we came out after half-time the welcome would be pretty loud and not too friendly. Crystal Palace wanted to strike back, so that was all clear. This is a wonderful place to play football - Jurgen Klopp |
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| bexleydave Barnehurst 16 Jul 19 6.12am |
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Originally posted by glaziermart
I've not read the Peter Manning book yet, but speaking to Palace fans that have, they are convinced we should be the oldest football club in the world! they said Peter Manning has dissected everything to produce compelling evidence. Does anyone know Peter? does he ever post on here and has anyone tried to contact the club or Steve Parish to get the Football League or Premier League to look at this book. A number of clubs have had their founding dates changed over the years with new evidence (Wrexham and Stoke spring to mind), and from what i've heard the evidence in this book is even more tangible
Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum) |
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| glaziermart 16 Jul 19 8.55am |
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Originally posted by grumpymort
Not the same club not sure how people can even link the two together. This was not like many other clubs a name/brand change it was a separate club which setup. If it had been linked 100% they would be using that because it adds more history to the club being a founder which could in some ways add lot of value. but then history can be written how you want based on who writes it (this is the case with mostly all history) so could add in links without evidence i suppose who would fight it? Edited by grumpymort (16 Jul 2019 8.37am)
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| bexleydave Barnehurst 16 Jul 19 9.56am |
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Originally posted by glaziermart
How can you say its not the same club??? they are both linked to the Crystal Palace company, were founded at the exhibition palace, played inside the grounds etc. Ok so maybe we can never 100% prove a link, as you said everyone can argue either way, but i would say its 70/30 in favour of the clubs being linked in some way and its definitely worth the Football League or whoever looking at the evidence
The current club was started in 1905 and the founders did not try to claim an earlier date of foundation. We've accepted 1905 for 114 years, put it on our badge and celebrated a centenary in 2005. Nothing new has come to light in the last 114 years that wasn't known at the time, just some bloke expressing an opinion in a book, copies of which he hopes to sell, and we all know about opinions don't we? It's clearly tickled your fancy, but it isn't going to happen, and if we tried to raise this with whoever, in a hopeless attempt to claim a history we don't have, we'll look an even bigger bunch of plonkers than many think we already are. As I've already said, let's concentrate on the hear and now.
Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum) |
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| est1905 18 Jul 19 5.01pm |
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Originally posted by Palace_denizen
now that the dust has settled on our centenary, there is ample evidence that we existed and thrived from 1861 to 1876 , including participating in some of the first FA cups. our name is in the annals of FA cup history going way way back prior to 1905. Does anybody think another England club has a better claim to the Crystal Palace name than us ?
The Crystal Palace you are talking about were a bunch of full time glazers that worked at the Crystal Palace and started up a team (simoilar to the South London soldiers that started a team at the Woolwich Arsenal. Difference is The Woolwich Arsenal dropped the 'Woolwich', moved to North London, pissed of Tottenham Hotspur who were already there and established themselves as a club in their own right.
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| glaziermart 19 Jul 19 10.38am |
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Originally posted by est1905
The Crystal Palace you are talking about were a bunch of full time glazers that worked at the Crystal Palace and started up a team (simoilar to the South London soldiers that started a team at the Woolwich Arsenal. Difference is The Woolwich Arsenal dropped the 'Woolwich', moved to North London, pissed of Tottenham Hotspur who were already there and established themselves as a club in their own right. Totally incorrect!! the players were not part time glaziers, they were businessman who participated in sport, some were already footballers, and it was the Crystal Palace company that formed the team from this. If you actually read Peter Manning's book, then you would know this. Unfortunately, your account is what has been inaccurately peddled for years, that these players were groundworkers, glaziers, bin men!!! you name it, which is why the assumption has been taken, without any previous research that the two clubs are separate. But there is a very plausible link which Peter has gone to great pains to research and produce the facts, maybe if you read his book you might come to a different conclusion
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| Kant exeter 19 Jul 19 4.21pm |
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Originally posted by bexleydave
If Liverpool could make such a claim do you think they would be worried about what people might think? You’d never hear the last of it.
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| est1905 19 Jul 19 6.00pm |
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Originally posted by glaziermart
Totally incorrect!! the players were not part time glaziers, they were businessman who participated in sport, some were already footballers, and it was the Crystal Palace company that formed the team from this. If you actually read Peter Manning's book, then you would know this. Unfortunately, your account is what has been inaccurately peddled for years, that these players were groundworkers, glaziers, bin men!!! you name it, which is why the assumption has been taken, without any previous research that the two clubs are separate. But there is a very plausible link which Peter has gone to great pains to research and produce the facts, maybe if you read his book you might come to a different conclusion Pipe down you self important prat. As it happens 'Peter' isn't the only person who can write a book. The info I got from the one I read was actually provided by someone that was alive at the time and there. No need for research like your idol Peter.
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