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Labour Party Supporters: Should Corbyn Step Down?
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 serial thriller  The Promised Land 23 Sep 19 11.25am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
How do you know who voted for posh schools to be closed? Most people at festivals left school years ago. (I see the merit in closing them. Had to be all or nothing for it to work though) That's how Labour conference works. Each CLP elects delegates who then can propose and vote on policies which can be included in Labour's manifesto. It's obviously caused controversy, and you are entitled to disagree that this is the best way for a party to function, but it is undoubtedly democratic, and IMO much fairer than having policies decided by think tanks.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Sep 19 11.25am |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Since Corbyn became leader Labour has become the largest membership based political party in Europe and the average age of a member has dropped by 10 years. On top of that, the biggest youth movement in history - the climate protests - is becoming more and more closely tied to Labour. And throughout the party, technocrats from Oxbridge are being replaced by working class activists. If that's a party dying then I'd love to see what growth looks like. I see your point that he/it’s a movement for the future, because he’s not cutting it enough now is he, especially through austerity, May, Boris, Brexit (although therein lies another party voting 66/33% rough split is it?). But what when a lot of these trend followers get a house, mortgage, children and make the gradual move across the political spectrum? A lot of people vote conservative for the one reason (personal finance) and not much more. Young people never think they’ll age but they do, and change their views, or their personal needs change.
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 23 Sep 19 11.34am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
I see your point that he/it’s a movement for the future, because he’s not cutting it enough now is he, especially through austerity, May, Boris, Brexit (although therein lies another party voting 66/33% rough split is it?). But what when a lot of these trend followers get a house, mortgage, children and make the gradual move across the political spectrum? A lot of people vote conservative for the one reason (personal finance) and not much more. Young people never think they’ll age but they do, and change their views, or their personal needs change. But here's the issue. The current generation will find it much harder to simply 'buy a house' because property prices have gone insane. Their job prospects are significantly worse than previous eras, and unless they are privileged, their kids will be in schools which are far worse funded than in the past. This is what's radicalising the youth. Not just a decade of low growth and austerity, but 40 years of market fundamentalism which has allowed those with assets and stocks to horde wealth, and disproportionately hit the young, poor and disabled.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Sep 19 11.36am |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
That's how Labour conference works. Each CLP elects delegates who then can propose and vote on policies which can be included in Labour's manifesto. It's obviously caused controversy, and you are entitled to disagree that this is the best way for a party to function, but it is undoubtedly democratic, and IMO much fairer than having policies decided by think tanks. Agree, but did the thousands at the festival all vote for it, or all privately educated adults around the country (would have) voted for it? We’ll see. Many of them will value what they’ve been privileged with and how it has and will provide more opportunities, especially if they’re no different to state school educated adults apart from the private school accent. Or I suppose lots may think they’ll never afford the fees so they may as well vote to close them down. The 7% in private schools who become voters is quite a lot in GE’s, especially as there’ll be quite a few in marginal constituencies.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Sep 19 12.06pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
But here's the issue. The current generation will find it much harder to simply 'buy a house' because property prices have gone insane. Their job prospects are significantly worse than previous eras, and unless they are privileged, their kids will be in schools which are far worse funded than in the past. This is what's radicalising the youth. Not just a decade of low growth and austerity, but 40 years of market fundamentalism which has allowed those with assets and stocks to horde wealth, and disproportionately hit the young, poor and disabled. Fair points. Capitalism should be and should’ve been regulated more. A lot of this house price and house investment obsession and explosion since 2000 and whatever, whenever it started was due to both lack of government intervention and what I’ve said, a national obsession helped along by people who have nothing better to do and got swept up in the Location Location Location viewing addiction and conversations at work, Homes Under The Hammer and whatever else programmes on tv. I don’t particularly blame individuals for doing so, but it’s just a little sad that our progression as a country has been measured on expenditure on home improvements, which is why Brexit is so different. Because it means much more than GDP and KPI’s from the Bank of England. Anyway, as you were. Having a quite left or socialist government will depend on the leader, and I doubt Corbyn is him now and won’t last or be young enough for when he is for these peeved voters.
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| dannyboy1978 23 Sep 19 12.40pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Since Corbyn became leader Labour has become the largest membership based political party in Europe and the average age of a member has dropped by 10 years. On top of that, the biggest youth movement in history - the climate protests - is becoming more and more closely tied to Labour. And throughout the party, technocrats from Oxbridge are being replaced by working class activists. If that's a party dying then I'd love to see what growth looks like. Crack on you vote Labour! PMSL
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| dannyboy1978 23 Sep 19 12.42pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
But here's the issue. The current generation will find it much harder to simply 'buy a house' because property prices have gone insane. Their job prospects are significantly worse than previous eras, and unless they are privileged, their kids will be in schools which are far worse funded than in the past. This is what's radicalising the youth. Not just a decade of low growth and austerity, but 40 years of market fundamentalism which has allowed those with assets and stocks to horde wealth, and disproportionately hit the young, poor and disabled. Property prices have gone insane because people are paying the prices!!
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Sep 19 12.48pm |
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How exactly can Labour introduce a 32 hour working week, especially when productivity needs increasing?
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cryrst  The garden of England 23 Sep 19 12.59pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
How exactly can Labour introduce a 32 hour working week, especially when productivity needs increasing? Policy and vote winners are two different things.
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| Midlands Eagle 23 Sep 19 1.07pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
How exactly can Labour introduce a 32 hour working week, especially when productivity needs increasing? On their proposed minimum wage of £10 per hour too
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| steeleye20 Croydon 23 Sep 19 1.29pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
On their proposed minimum wage of £10 per hour too Aren't we actually working too long for less productivity? And wages permanently depressed?
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Sep 19 2.23pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Aren't we actually working too long for less productivity? And wages permanently depressed? It cannot be done on the same weekly and monthly pay. Do you not understand the implications of a 20% pay rise for everyone? Look it up in history. Try the ‘70s. What a coincidence.
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jeeagles  23 Sep 19 2.32pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Do we support private fire brigades or private armies? We do have private security - people should and do take control of their own affairs when the state offering is doesn't cover what is required & they can afford it. This essentially comes down to what we think is best served via communal effort and what we understand is best served via private ownership. Private schools are elitist.....I see the benefit of them but it's essentially a benefit for a few. I think this is a rather short sighted approach, lead by politics of envy. Every child in a private school is a £5k a year funding saving for cash strapped local authorities. The average person is meant to earn around £25k a year and pay £5k in tax. Those who can afford private schools are more likely to pay higher tax, which can go on, taking their child out of the state system reduces the burden on the tax payer. It is sad that some children get better opportunities than others, but, most private schools offer scholarships (I think Boris was on one). Certainly, more parents could afford it than you think, just live in a smaller house, don't buy a new car every year, cut back on holidays to Disneyland/Skiing every year, massive TV's in every room of the house (I know not everyone can afford these, but a lot of parents of private school kids do put ALL their money into private education. Having an elite education system does give an unfair advantage to the children who get it over the children that don't, but everyone should have the right to invest in their children's future. It also arguably produces better a better educated population than the state system can afford, which does benefit the entire population. I see some weaknesses within my own position as well.....I mean if we ban private schools we surrender a plank of meritocracy where the supposed best minds are housed and educated together (when in reality it's more often the richest)....the idea being that we have the best in the most important positions. Private schools aren't tied to the national curriculum and are fiercely competitive in every way which helps drive up the standards of education, reducing bureaucracy and looking for better ways of doing things. State schools are essentially exam factories measure on simplistic metrics. Worryingly Labour also want to get rid of Ofsted too, thus removing competition and evaluation from the school system. Look at what the products from these schools and later universities have been doing to this country over the last fifty years. So f**k them. In some cases. Not all, look at all proportion of Olympic medal winners produced by private schools, the same success is reflected in other industries, you just never hear people say - Richard Branson, Private School Boy and entrepreneur, because it isn't a popular narrative unless they fail Come swim in the pool you created. On the subject of pools, most of these schools rent their facilities out to the public when ever they can to generate extra income, normally at a lower rate than private gyms etc could charge, thus providing facilities to the general public which wouldn't otherwise be their. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Sep 2019 9.58am/) Most worrying of all is the grab of private sector assets. Argentina started doing this under Fernandez, and investors lost all confidence in their economy. It's a dangerous precedent
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| jeeagles 23 Sep 19 2.35pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Buying votes. More bank holidays. 32 hour weeks on the same pay. Er, how? I’d predict job losses mortgage defaults galore. Maybe even the other way round as they couldn’t enforce the latter. I knew this conference would be a bit of a joke. Haven’t got o to Brexit yet. Wouldn't be against shorter working hours or 4 more bank holidays. The UK works far too hard compared to Europe, the 3 day week showed this wouldn't necessarily impact productivity. More free time could increase spending in the economy. Increased time to train and study, potentially lower unemployment, potential health benefits to the workforce.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Sep 19 2.44pm |
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Originally posted by jeeagles
Wouldn't be against shorter working hours or 4 more bank holidays. The UK works far too hard compared to Europe, the 3 day week showed this wouldn't necessarily impact productivity. More free time could increase spending in the economy. Increased time to train and study, potentially lower unemployment, potential health benefits to the workforce. A lot of businesses have the current pay rates factored into their business model with employees already working at their peak. Supermarkets are azprime example. You want to not work as hard as now when a lot of businesses rely on the output at the current level. As you can see, I’m lost on the logic here. It might work in jobs where there’s a lot of downtime, like in career office professional jobs but in manual jobs or where employees are essentially just a number then I don’t see how this works or makes any sense. You’re just increasing the highest cost in a business by 20%. In the end the U.K. would just be less competitive. Edited by Rudi Hedman (23 Sep 2019 2.47pm)
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| W12 23 Sep 19 2.54pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Do we support private fire brigades or private armies? This essentially comes down to what we think is best served via communal effort and what we understand is best served via private ownership. Private schools are elitist.....I see the benefit of them but it's essentially a benefit for a few. I see some weaknesses within my own position as well.....I mean if we ban private schools we surrender a plank of meritocracy where the supposed best minds are housed and educated together (when in reality it's more often the richest)....the idea being that we have the best in the most important positions. But...errrr. Look at what the products from these schools and later universities have been doing to this country over the last fifty years. So f**k them. Come swim in the pool you created.
I came from a sink estate in South London (one of the worse) and through hard work now have two children in private school. Recently I've been complaining to one of the schools that my son is being forced to attend an "Individuals in Society" lesson including every crappy social justice topic you can imagine - yes clearly left wing indoctrination involved. But the problem here is the government now mandate this anyway. I would still rather they were in private education as apart from anything else they are physically safer and have a better pupil / student ratio. My heart goes out to most people that have to use state schools although I know there are a few good ones (although generally hogged by the middle classes). I didn't create the pool you mention and have been actively campaigning to swim away from it. I would agree though that with most of the parents there is only one specific type of politics they will tolerate. James O'Brien is one of the other parents at the school for example. It's not a very "diverse" school by the way.
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| cryrst The garden of England 23 Sep 19 4.00pm |
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Originally posted by jeeagles
Wouldn't be against shorter working hours or 4 more bank holidays. The UK works far too hard compared to Europe, the 3 day week showed this wouldn't necessarily impact productivity. More free time could increase spending in the economy. Increased time to train and study, potentially lower unemployment, potential health benefits to the workforce. More free time to do what.
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