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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Sep 20 4.13pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Did you read what I wrote? You are confusing election interference from a foreign source, which is illegal in the USA, with straightforward local politics. Whether it involves Trump or not makes no difference to that fact. That I support the political efforts does not mean I would support foreign interference on behalf of Biden. I would not. That politics in the USA inhabits a dirty world which is no longer fit for purpose is undeniable. That some within it try to operate, as best they can, with integrity and honour is also undeniable. There are those, like Trump, for whom it is their natural environment and who see nothing wrong in corruption, lies or cruelty so long as it achieves results that suit them, and there are those who recognise the failings and would love to do something about them. They are not all the same. That's just a common myth spread by the corrupt to justify their corruption. I'm not seeing the Democrats as an option to sort out the corruption in the system. My reaction to this is that the Democratic nominees are the careerist politicians who have served their time in the party and are now getting their pop at the top job. I personally feel that bigger people in the party, such as Hilary Clinton and Obama are still pulling the strings. They are now the politicians' politicians and raise the money both you and Stirling mention.
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samprior Hamburg 30 Sep 20 4.42pm | |
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The debate last night was an utter embarrassment and unbelievably depressing. A country of however many million and that's the cream of the crop. There's really no choice - vote A for decrepit crook or vote B for decrepit crook.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Sep 20 5.13pm | |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
I'm not seeing the Democrats as an option to sort out the corruption in the system. My reaction to this is that the Democratic nominees are the careerist politicians who have served their time in the party and are now getting their pop at the top job. I personally feel that bigger people in the party, such as Hilary Clinton and Obama are still pulling the strings. They are now the politicians' politicians and raise the money both you and Stirling mention. The Democrats on their own cannot sort things out. It will require good people from all sides led by a leader, who could come from anywhere, who commands respect and can heal the divisions. And there are good people on all sides. Not just too many in the GOP right now. Why Trump entered politics is something that no doubt has had people wondering about for a long time. I don't know but I am quite sure it isn't because he wanted to serve this country with humility and honour so as to make the people safer and happier. Much more likely to be down to personal vanity or the need to hide his corruption and ultimately be pardoned for it. Trump's not really a fly in the ointment. He is more of a cuckoo in the nest, throwing out all the homebred innocents whilst conning those who feed him. We hear a lot about Trump for two reasons. Firstly because he wants to be talked about and makes sure he is via twitter and controversy. Secondly because by doing things quite as badly as he does he automatically draws attention to himself.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Sep 20 5.20pm | |
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Originally posted by samprior
The debate last night was an utter embarrassment and unbelievably depressing. A country of however many million and that's the cream of the crop. There's really no choice - vote A for decrepit crook or vote B for decrepit crook. One decrepit crook wants to hold power another 4 years, in whatever way he can fix it. The other might be older but he is neither decrepit nor a crook. He is a career politician, who is a safe pair of hands and knows the system, knows who can be trusted to advise and hold supporting office. Most of all he isn't Trump. He is very likely just a stalking horse. A bridge to a better future under a younger progressive leadership.
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Stirlingsays 30 Sep 20 6.01pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
One decrepit crook wants to hold power another 4 years, in whatever way he can fix it. The other might be older but he is neither decrepit nor a crook. He is a career politician, who is a safe pair of hands and knows the system, knows who can be trusted to advise and hold supporting office. Most of all he isn't Trump. He is very likely just a stalking horse. A bridge to a better future under a younger progressive leadership. Regardless of who wins you are talking pipe dreams. I think you are guilty of underestimating just how strongly people disagree with your political ideas....it's just as strong if not stronger than how much you oppose Trump. Whoever wins the following events will show you just how badly you have underestimated those divisions.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Hrolf The Ganger 30 Sep 20 6.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
One decrepit crook wants to hold power another 4 years, in whatever way he can fix it. The other might be older but he is neither decrepit nor a crook. He is a career politician, who is a safe pair of hands and knows the system, knows who can be trusted to advise and hold supporting office. Most of all he isn't Trump. He is very likely just a stalking horse. A bridge to a better future under a younger progressive leadership. Is there any end to your idealistic naivety?
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samprior Hamburg 30 Sep 20 7.06pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
One decrepit crook wants to hold power another 4 years, in whatever way he can fix it. The other might be older but he is neither decrepit nor a crook. He is a career politician, who is a safe pair of hands and knows the system, knows who can be trusted to advise and hold supporting office. Most of all he isn't Trump. He is very likely just a stalking horse. A bridge to a better future under a younger progressive leadership. Fair enough. I'd just have to disagree. I see no reason to be optimistic in either. And I see this repeated in party lines as the biggest positive that either can seem to muster up is that we are not the other. Hence their pathetic debate last night which quickly descended into who's cleverer than who, debate number two will be my dad's bigger than yours.
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cryrst The garden of England 30 Sep 20 8.11pm | |
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I think people being inquisitive is creating the present situation. You know the ' we've had the right for years blah blah'
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Sep 20 9.56pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Regardless of who wins you are talking pipe dreams. I think you are guilty of underestimating just how strongly people disagree with your political ideas....it's just as strong if not stronger than how much you oppose Trump. Whoever wins the following events will show you just how badly you have underestimated those divisions. Oh, I realise how strongly those who hold opposing views believe in them. What you are guilty of is overestimating how many do think like that. That there are many more of them pro-rata in the USA than here in the UK is certainly true but they are still a minority, albeit a significant one. Here they are noisy but relatively small in number. The politics they believe in attract others to specific causes, like Brexit, but they are only a temporary shift of allegiance. As Johnson will discover when he finds out that the red wall just had some holes blown in it which will be blocked up again soon enough. In the USA the divisions are real and very deep. They are being driven by ignorance and fed by misinformation spread via social media. I see it every day in my exchanges with my US friends who constantly repeat conspiracy theories which have been fact-checked and totally debunked. How we overcome this is truly worrying because many millions of otherwise perfectly decent people are living in a universe parallel to reality. If I shared with you some of the things they believe in I suspect even you would find them incredible. They regard Alex Jones as a hero and the only source of truth. I would like to think that an incoming Democratic administration will reach across the divide and not seek to widen it, as Trump has done. Offering understanding, reassurance and dialogue with firm handling of any who decide to attempt direct action. There is no need to rush to change anything. Concentrating together on the immediate priority of dealing with the epidemic is more than enough.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Sep 20 10.02pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Is there any end to your idealistic naivety? Better to seek idealistic solutions than settle for cynical ones! You never know what's possible unless you try to achieve something better.
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Spiderman Horsham 30 Sep 20 10.13pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As with many things you have to make a judgement on what is true. Mine is, based on the available evidence, that what the NYT has said is overwhelmingly likely to be substantially true.
Do you disagree? Do I disagree about what? That you are more likely to be right? Of course you are right, when have you ever been wrong? Certainly never on this board, well in your own mind anyway.
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Mapletree Croydon 30 Sep 20 10.16pm | |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
Do I disagree about what? That you are more likely to be right? Of course you are right, when have you ever been wrong? Certainly never on this board, well in your own mind anyway. I just love the way you go straight at the point, addressing the facts.
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