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Badger11 Beckenham 28 May 21 1.59pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 The automation industry itself is massive, employing huge numbers of people in design, testing, manufacturing of both hardware and software and then there are the subdivisions for each specific application. Replacing monotonous and skill-less 'jobs' is a good thing as that's how humanity progresses into a more intelligent society freeing it from unnecessary manual labour. Look at the computer industry, automated thousands of previously manual tasks but employs millions all over the world. I don't say it is good or bad just inevitable. I have been predicting this for quite a few years and I think the excuses around COVID will speed it up. You only have to look at the supermarkets they have been pushing for self service before COVID now it is difficult to get served by a person. I suspect it means that entry level jobs will start to disappear. Edited by Badger11 (28 May 2021 2.00pm) One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 28 May 21 1.59pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

The automation industry itself is massive, employing huge numbers of people in design, testing, manufacturing of both hardware and software and then there are the subdivisions for each specific application. Replacing monotonous and skill-less 'jobs' is a good thing as that's how humanity progresses into a more intelligent society freeing it from unnecessary manual labour. Look at the computer industry, automated thousands of previously manual tasks but employs millions all over the world.

I don't say it is good or bad just inevitable. I have been predicting this for quite a few years and I think the excuses around COVID will speed it up. You only have to look at the supermarkets they have been pushing for self service before COVID now it is difficult to get served by a person.

I suspect it means that entry level jobs will start to disappear.

Edited by Badger11 (28 May 2021 2.00pm)

One more point

Stirlingsays 28 May 21 2.20pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 The automation industry itself is massive, employing huge numbers of people in design, testing, manufacturing of both hardware and software and then there are the subdivisions for each specific application. Replacing monotonous and skill-less 'jobs' is a good thing as that's how humanity progresses into a more intelligent society freeing it from unnecessary manual labour. Look at the computer industry, automated thousands of previously manual tasks but employs millions all over the world. I would agree that automation is inevitable however the human population is going up not down and to be honest I don't think the computing industry made more jobs than it actually took....better paid jobs perhaps and new offshoot industries but not more jobs. The largest draw on any company is the human cost and If a new process actually ended up costing companies more it would never be implemented in the first place. Economies of scale are a factor but overall as a percentage of employed the wide spread introduction of automation....in my opinion will see a drop in overall employment. That said, increasing automation is inevitable and of the both of us I certainly hope you are right rather than me. It's hard to be certain on the overall affect of automation...It's like when the Internet was first introduced, predictions could be made but it took time for us to see clearly on the extents of the pros and cons. But it's like the H bomb, its development was inevitable and once here it couldn't be put back into its shell...as it were. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 May 2021 2.28pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

28 May 21 2.20pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

I would agree that automation is inevitable however the human population is going up not down and to be honest I don't think the computing industry made more jobs than it actually took....better paid jobs perhaps and new offshoot industries but not more jobs.

The largest draw on any company is the human cost and If a new process actually ended up costing companies more it would never be implemented in the first place.

Economies of scale are a factor but overall as a percentage of employed the wide spread introduction of automation....in my opinion will see a drop in overall employment.

That said, increasing automation is inevitable and of the both of us I certainly hope you are right rather than me.

It's hard to be certain on the overall affect of automation...It's like when the Internet was first introduced, predictions could be made but it took time for us to see clearly on the extents of the pros and cons.

But it's like the H bomb, its development was inevitable and once here it couldn't be put back into its shell...as it were.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 May 2021 2.28pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Badger11 Beckenham 28 May 21 2.37pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I would agree that automation is inevitable however the human population is going up not down and to be honest I don't think the computing industry made more jobs than it actually took....better paid jobs perhaps and new offshoot industries but not more jobs. The largest draw on any company is the human cost and If a new process actually ended up costing companies more it would never be implemented in the first place. Economies of scale are a factor but overall as a percentage of employed the wide spread introduction of automation....in my opinion will see a drop in overall employment. That said, increasing automation is inevitable and of the both of us I certainly hope you are right rather than me. It's hard to be certain on the overall affect of automation...It's like when the Internet was first introduced, predictions could be made but it took time for us to see clearly on the extents of the pros and cons. But it's like the H bomb, its development was inevitable and once here it couldn't be put back into its shell...as it were. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 May 2021 2.28pm) Now is not the time to be importing unskilled labour come September the school leavers for this year will be looking for jobs and furlough ends apparently 2m are still getting paid. I( hope that we will be okay but it could be that there are a lot of unemployed. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 28 May 21 2.37pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The largest draw on any company is the human cost and If a new process actually ended up costing companies more it would never be implemented in the first place.

Economies of scale are a factor but overall as a percentage of employed the wide spread introduction of automation....in my opinion will see a drop in overall employment.

That said, increasing automation is inevitable and of the both of us I certainly hope you are right rather than me.

But it's like the H bomb, its development was inevitable and once here it couldn't be put back into its shell...as it were.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 May 2021 2.28pm)

Now is not the time to be importing unskilled labour come September the school leavers for this year will be looking for jobs and furlough ends apparently 2m are still getting paid.

I( hope that we will be okay but it could be that there are a lot of unemployed.

One more point

Stirlingsays 28 May 21 5.00pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Now is not the time to be importing unskilled labour come September the school leavers for this year will be looking for jobs and furlough ends apparently 2m are still getting paid. I( hope that we will be okay but it could be that there are a lot of unemployed. Ditto Badger, ditto indeed. I wonder what the conservations will be like in ten years time. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

28 May 21 5.00pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Now is not the time to be importing unskilled labour come September the school leavers for this year will be looking for jobs and furlough ends apparently 2m are still getting paid.

I( hope that we will be okay but it could be that there are a lot of unemployed.

Ditto Badger, ditto indeed.

I wonder what the conservations will be like in ten years time.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

HKOwen Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 8.01am
Which particular parts of the trade deal with Australia are you unhappy with? update The deal has not been published or indeed ratified so basically you are complaining about something you don't know about. Reminds me of Emily Thornberry last week going on about animal welfare standards in Australia about which she knows nothing other than it was on the list of things to complain about from Labour HQ. Have you protested about the conditions of animals in the UK which is not so different from the USA and Australia. At least we're away from the EU which gave us horse meat posing as beef. I look forward to your reply after you have done some googlenet research. Originally posted by steeleye20 The public really ought to wake up to Truss and her spectacularly bad trade deals. The Australian deal deserves a medal for self inflicting wounds on our farmers. Hopefully we will realise the damage industrial meat production is doing to the planet not least its link to the pandemic, and reject USA and other obnoxious trade deals involving animals crammed together. Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 8.08am) Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

HKOwen

Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 8.01am

Which particular parts of the trade deal with Australia are you unhappy with?

update

The deal has not been published or indeed ratified so basically you are complaining about something you don't know about. Reminds me of Emily Thornberry last week going on about animal welfare standards in Australia about which she knows nothing other than it was on the list of things to complain about from Labour HQ.

Have you protested about the conditions of animals in the UK which is not so different from the USA and Australia.

At least we're away from the EU which gave us horse meat posing as beef.

I look forward to your reply after you have done some googlenet research.

Originally posted by steeleye20

The public really ought to wake up to Truss and her spectacularly bad trade deals.

The Australian deal deserves a medal for self inflicting wounds on our farmers.

Hopefully we will realise the damage industrial meat production is doing to the planet not least its link to the pandemic, and reject USA and other obnoxious trade deals involving animals crammed together.

Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 8.08am)

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

Mapletree Croydon 01 Jun 21 8.18am
Originally posted by HKOwen Which particular parts of the trade deal with Australia are you unhappy with? Have you protested about the conditions of animals in the UK which is not so different from the USA and Australia. Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 8.08am) This is incorrect Currently there is a focus on mulesing [Link] But there are many ways in which Australian farming is far less progressive than UK and EU farming

Mapletree

Croydon 01 Jun 21 8.18am

Originally posted by HKOwen

Which particular parts of the trade deal with Australia are you unhappy with?

Have you protested about the conditions of animals in the UK which is not so different from the USA and Australia.

Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 8.08am)

This is incorrect

Currently there is a focus on mulesing

[Link]

But there are many ways in which Australian farming is far less progressive than UK and EU farming

HKOwen Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 8.41am
Nicely googled, apart from that? Originally posted by Mapletree This is incorrect Currently there is a focus on mulesing [Link] But there are many ways in which Australian farming is far less progressive than UK and EU farming Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

HKOwen

Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 8.41am

Nicely googled, apart from that?

Originally posted by Mapletree

This is incorrect

Currently there is a focus on mulesing

[Link]

But there are many ways in which Australian farming is far less progressive than UK and EU farming

HKOwen Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 8.42am
Apart from one aspect specific to sheep have you googled about other livestock welfare? I can google too, museling is a process to prevent a disease called flystrike which causes a slow agonizing death ( per google ) Did it bother you as much pre Brexit? UK currently imports about 0.3% of Australia's wool exports, Italy and Czech Republic by comparison around 1% each. So all in all, it's a rubbish example to try and use the criticise the free trade deal under negotiation. Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 8.50am) Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 8.50am) Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 9.52am) Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

HKOwen

Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 8.42am

Apart from one aspect specific to sheep have you googled about other livestock welfare?

I can google too, museling is a process to prevent a disease called flystrike which causes a slow agonizing death ( per google )

Did it bother you as much pre Brexit?

UK currently imports about 0.3% of Australia's wool exports, Italy and Czech Republic by comparison around 1% each.

So all in all, it's a rubbish example to try and use the criticise the free trade deal under negotiation.

Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 8.50am)

Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 9.52am)

HKOwen Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 9.53am
Originally posted by HKOwen Nicely googled, apart from that? Btw, I love the self righteous pomposity of your " that is incorrect ", please use it more, can become your catch phrase Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

HKOwen

Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 9.53am

Originally posted by HKOwen

Nicely googled, apart from that?

Btw, I love the self righteous pomposity of your " that is incorrect ", please use it more, can become your catch phrase

HKOwen Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 9.55am
Doesn't really make sense to award a medal to something that didn't inflict the wounds, just saying. Originally posted by steeleye20 The public really ought to wake up to Truss and her spectacularly bad trade deals. The Australian deal deserves a medal for self inflicting wounds on our farmers. Hopefully we will realise the damage industrial meat production is doing to the planet not least its link to the pandemic, and reject USA and other obnoxious trade deals involving animals crammed together. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

HKOwen

Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 9.55am

Doesn't really make sense to award a medal to something that didn't inflict the wounds, just saying.

Originally posted by steeleye20

The public really ought to wake up to Truss and her spectacularly bad trade deals.

The Australian deal deserves a medal for self inflicting wounds on our farmers.

Badger11 Beckenham 01 Jun 21 10.15am
I hadn't realised that Tory farmers had so many supporters amongst the left. We don't know the details of the deal yet but farmers have been supported by the taxpayers for decades and what have we got in return, BSE, foot and mouth, salmonella and various other health issues and environmental concerns. If we are to continue to subsidise them then they should move away from battery hens etc. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 01 Jun 21 10.15am

I hadn't realised that Tory farmers had so many supporters amongst the left.

We don't know the details of the deal yet but farmers have been supported by the taxpayers for decades and what have we got in return, BSE, foot and mouth, salmonella and various other health issues and environmental concerns.

If we are to continue to subsidise them then they should move away from battery hens etc.

One more point

HKOwen Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 11.03am
So you assume all farmers are Conservatives ? Originally posted by Badger11 I hadn't realised that Tory farmers had so many supporters amongst the left. We don't know the details of the deal yet but farmers have been supported by the taxpayers for decades and what have we got in return, BSE, foot and mouth, salmonella and various other health issues and environmental concerns. If we are to continue to subsidise them then they should move away from battery hens etc. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

HKOwen

Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 11.03am

So you assume all farmers are Conservatives ?

Originally posted by Badger11

I hadn't realised that Tory farmers had so many supporters amongst the left.

If we are to continue to subsidise them then they should move away from battery hens etc.

Badger11 Beckenham 01 Jun 21 11.20am
Originally posted by HKOwen So you assume all farmers are Conservatives ? Yes it is an assumption that most are. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 01 Jun 21 11.20am

Originally posted by HKOwen

So you assume all farmers are Conservatives ?

Yes it is an assumption that most are.

One more point

HKOwen Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 11.38am
Opinions are what the forums are about. Can I ask why do you use " Tory " rather than Conservative. Do you think it's a good perjorative word and fits well into the narrative. The last leader of the Tory Party was the Duke of Wellington. Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 11.47am) Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

HKOwen

Hong Kong 01 Jun 21 11.38am

Opinions are what the forums are about.

Can I ask why do you use " Tory " rather than Conservative.

Do you think it's a good perjorative word and fits well into the narrative.

The last leader of the Tory Party was the Duke of Wellington.

Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 11.47am)

Badger11 Beckenham 01 Jun 21 1.41pm
Originally posted by HKOwen Opinions are what the forums are about. Can I ask why do you use " Tory " rather than Conservative. Do you think it's a good perjorative word and fits well into the narrative. The last leader of the Tory Party was the Duke of Wellington. Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 11.47am) I have voted conservative all my life I used Tory as I was being lazy with my typing. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 01 Jun 21 1.41pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

Opinions are what the forums are about.

Can I ask why do you use " Tory " rather than Conservative.

Do you think it's a good perjorative word and fits well into the narrative.

The last leader of the Tory Party was the Duke of Wellington.

Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 11.47am)

I have voted conservative all my life I used Tory as I was being lazy with my typing.

One more point

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 01 Jun 21 1.53pm
[Link] Some more good news. Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 01 Jun 21 1.53pm

[Link]

Some more good news.

Pro USA & Israel

Mapletree Croydon 01 Jun 21 2.40pm
Originally posted by HKOwen Apart from one aspect specific to sheep have you googled about other livestock welfare? I can google too, museling is a process to prevent a disease called flystrike which causes a slow agonizing death ( per google ) Did it bother you as much pre Brexit? UK currently imports about 0.3% of Australia's wool exports, Italy and Czech Republic by comparison around 1% each. So all in all, it's a rubbish example to try and use the criticise the free trade deal under negotiation. Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 8.50am) Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 8.50am) Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 9.52am) I am sure you are aware of my interest in farming, and especially in sheep farming. Wool has no value, it costs more to shear than you can sell it for. The UK effectively throws most of it away Australia mass produces sheep for meat. The mass production approach has many down sides Australian lamb is not nearly as good as UK lamb either.

Mapletree

Croydon 01 Jun 21 2.40pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

Apart from one aspect specific to sheep have you googled about other livestock welfare?

I can google too, museling is a process to prevent a disease called flystrike which causes a slow agonizing death ( per google )

Did it bother you as much pre Brexit?

UK currently imports about 0.3% of Australia's wool exports, Italy and Czech Republic by comparison around 1% each.

So all in all, it's a rubbish example to try and use the criticise the free trade deal under negotiation.

Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 8.50am)

Edited by HKOwen (01 Jun 2021 9.52am)

I am sure you are aware of my interest in farming, and especially in sheep farming.

Wool has no value, it costs more to shear than you can sell it for. The UK effectively throws most of it away

Australia mass produces sheep for meat. The mass production approach has many down sides

Australian lamb is not nearly as good as UK lamb either.

Orange1290 01 Jun 21 3.48pm
OK Originally posted by Jimenez [Link] Some more good news. "The move, which is still under review at the company's US headquarters, would create 50 full-time jobs at the factory" Yep, definitely worth throwing away £billions of business from the financial & services industry, freedom of movement to the rest the EU, putting peace in NI at risk and decimating the fishing and farming industries. Really good business model, impressive. Edited by Orange1290 (01 Jun 2021 3.50pm) Pro China, EU & Palestine

Orange1290

01 Jun 21 3.48pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

[Link]

Some more good news.

"The move, which is still under review at the company's US headquarters, would create 50 full-time jobs at the factory"

Yep, definitely worth throwing away £billions of business from the financial & services industry, freedom of movement to the rest the EU, putting peace in NI at risk and decimating the fishing and farming industries. Really good business model, impressive.

Edited by Orange1290 (01 Jun 2021 3.50pm)

Pro China, EU & Palestine

Eaglecoops CR3 01 Jun 21 4.27pm
Originally posted by Mapletree I am sure you are aware of my interest in farming, and especially in sheep farming. Wool has no value, it costs more to shear than you can sell it for. The UK effectively throws most of it away Australia mass produces sheep for meat. The mass production approach has many down sides Australian lamb is not nearly as good as UK lamb either. I have to say I haven't come across a subject you are not a self professed expert in yet. Just off the top of my head that is farming, accountancy, law, human resources, care homes, general medicine, vaccines and that is without trawling earlier posts. That's one hell of a lot of first degrees, masters degrees and private time studying. I'm amazed you find the time to post on here.

Eaglecoops

CR3 01 Jun 21 4.27pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

I am sure you are aware of my interest in farming, and especially in sheep farming.

Wool has no value, it costs more to shear than you can sell it for. The UK effectively throws most of it away

Australia mass produces sheep for meat. The mass production approach has many down sides

Australian lamb is not nearly as good as UK lamb either.

I have to say I haven't come across a subject you are not a self professed expert in yet. Just off the top of my head that is farming, accountancy, law, human resources, care homes, general medicine, vaccines and that is without trawling earlier posts. That's one hell of a lot of first degrees, masters degrees and private time studying. I'm amazed you find the time to post on here.

Stirlingsays 01 Jun 21 4.35pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 OK "The move, which is still under review at the company's US headquarters, would create 50 full-time jobs at the factory" Yep, definitely worth throwing away £billions of business from the financial & services industry, freedom of movement to the rest the EU, putting peace in NI at risk and decimating the fishing and farming industries. Really good business model, impressive. Edited by Orange1290 (01 Jun 2021 3.50pm) Does this mean you're a salty orange? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

01 Jun 21 4.35pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

"The move, which is still under review at the company's US headquarters, would create 50 full-time jobs at the factory"

Edited by Orange1290 (01 Jun 2021 3.50pm)

Does this mean you're a salty orange?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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