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Bias against Trump
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wordup  01 Dec 17 6.02pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The non existent god save us from the hubris of lefties who think themselves so knowing and superior over the 'duped' as they see it. Their type of attitude accounts for a lot of his votes. Most people know what Trump is and represents. I suspect the number of people fooled by him isn't any higher than the number fooled by any other politician. It's fine for us to just let justice take its course. Neither the left or right have an monopoly on common sense or being fooled. Trump was a crap option out or two available bad options. Saying that he throws out these these tweets to keep his supporters onside while acting completely differently with regard to policy, is not a value judgment on anyone, it's a statement of fact.
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 Stirlingsays 01 Dec 17 6.10pm |
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Originally posted by wordup
It's fine for us to just let justice take its course. Neither the left or right have an monopoly on common sense or being fooled. Trump was a crap option out or two available bad options. Saying that he throws out these these tweets to keep his supporters onside while acting completely differently with regard to policy, is not a value judgment on anyone, it's a statement of fact.
Perhaps because he's the other side and the reactions to him are so hyperbolic and 'tea party' like that you just notice it more. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2017 6.10pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| wordup 01 Dec 17 6.14pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
If you'd said a few months back that Flynn would be facing doing time you'd be seen as some kind of conspiracy theorist. As you say, it's best to just follow these never ending developments that offer an increased understanding of what happened during this election.
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Ray in Houston  Houston 01 Dec 17 6.15pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Trump is no different to all the politicians....they all lie...he's just more blatant. Perhaps because he's the other side and the reactions to him are so hyperbolic and 'tea party' like that you just notice it more.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| Stirlingsays 01 Dec 17 6.18pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
Is that a Kate Bush impression?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| wordup 01 Dec 17 6.20pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Perhaps because he's the other side and the reactions to him are so hyperbolic and 'tea party' like that you just notice it more. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2017 6.10pm) It has very little to do with sides, his behaviour as a human being and a president is ludicrous and an outlier for the role which will likely remain so. I had problems with Obama, but if he'd behaved like Trump he of course wouldn't have got anywhere near the presidency in the first place, which alone tells us somehting. Or if he had, it would've been a sad reflection of the party and country. While I mock fringe groups, I don't ever go after 'the left' or 'the right' in sweeping statements because it's so broad as to be meaningless. Besides, a persons politics tells you very little about them in a human to human sense.. unless they become their politics .. its important not to reach that stage.
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| wordup 01 Dec 17 8.37pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
Judge says Michael Flynn agreed to provide 'substantial assistance for prosecution of another person'
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| Ray in Houston Houston 01 Dec 17 9.18pm |
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Originally posted by wordup
Judge says Michael Flynn agreed to provide 'substantial assistance for prosecution of another person' On the basis that Flynn's plea deal seems to be about as soft as it could've gone, the expectation is that he's got the goods on someone up the chain - it's only in such circumstances that prosecutors give such favorable deals. Who's up the chain from Flynn? Only Pence* and Trump.
Pence is man of much more meagre means than Trump, who is paying his own substantial legal defense costs while those of Trumps Sr. and Jr. are being picked up by the Republican Party. Flynn was also paying his own defense costs, and the simple fact that their supposed-billionaire boss - and his son, for some reason - are getting a free ride while they're cashing in retirement savings and their kids' college funds may push more Trump underlings into Mueller's open arms. Does anyone imagine that Pence will take the fall for Trump? Nope...didn't think so. This isn't the mafia; Trump turns on people in a nanosecond and everyone in this mess knows it. I suspect Mueller's phone has been blowing up today with people looking to get a deal before there are no more deals to be had. Edited by Ray in Houston (01 Dec 2017 9.20pm)
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| .TUX. 01 Dec 17 9.36pm |
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Ron Paul should've got the gig.
Buy Litecoin. |
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| wordup 01 Dec 17 9.38pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
On the basis that Flynn's plea deal seems to be about as soft as it could've gone, the expectation is that he's got the goods on someone up the chain - it's only in such circumstances that prosecutors give such favorable deals. Who's up the chain from Flynn? Only Pence* and Trump.
Pence is man of much more meagre means than Trump, who is paying his own substantial legal defense costs while those of Trumps Sr. and Jr. are being picked up by the Republican Party. Flynn was also paying his own defense costs, and the simple fact that their supposed-billionaire boss - and his son, for some reason - are getting a free ride while they're cashing in retirement savings and their kids' college funds may push more Trump underlings into Mueller's open arms. Does anyone imagine that Pence will take the fall for Trump? Nope...didn't think so. This isn't the mafia; Trump turns on people in a nanosecond and everyone in this mess knows it. I suspect Mueller's phone has been blowing up today with people looking to get a deal before there are no more deals to be had. Edited by Ray in Houston (01 Dec 2017 9.20pm) I'm thinking Kushner, who will then either have to be honest or do time. I expect measures are already in place to take things to a state level, should Trump start getting pardon happy.
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| Ray in Houston Houston 01 Dec 17 10.16pm |
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Originally posted by wordup
I'm thinking Kushner, who will then either have to be honest or do time. I expect measures are already in place to take things to a state level, should Trump start getting pardon happy.
As to pardons, it's important to note that - once pardoned for a crime - you cannot then "plead the 5th" to avoid answering questions (the 5th amendment protection against self-incrimination is moot once you've been pardoned). Also, Presidential pardons can only be given for federal crimes, and we know that Mueller has been coordinating with the NY AG because there are plenty of state-level prosecutions that can be brought here. Lastly, while Trump has already had his Constitution wonks looking into whether he can pardon himself (seriously), that's missing the point. It's almost impossible to see a scenario where a sitting President gets indicted - he gets impeached, thrown out of office and then indicted, if it goes that far. At that point, he'll be looking to President Pence (or, more likely, President Ryan) for a pardon that may well be forthcoming. Edited by Ray in Houston (01 Dec 2017 10.19pm)
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Dec 17 1.22am |
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What s going on with the new tax bill about to go through? [Tweet Link]
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 02 Dec 17 12.35pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
What s going on with the new tax bill about to go through? [Tweet Link]It's a joke really. I think America has been pretty relieved by the relative rigidity off its legislative process, meaning that much of the reactionary nonsense Trump has wanted to pass through hasn't been enacted. But on the flip side, Congress and the Senate are so wedded to big business that they can find the numbers to pass a trillion dollar tax cut, even when the bill has been read by no one and has been edited heavily with anonymous handwriting! It's the sort of superstitious, blindly faithful law-making you'd expect to see from the Vatican, or some puppet government in a military dictatorship. To see it in a federal republic which is constantly sucking its own d*ck about its democratic values is a tragedy. This is Trump's first, and quite probably only, major legislative victory. If he does get impeached, then his record, despite all the hoo-ha over his racism, idiocy, threats, tweets, will simply show that he has bowed to the will of Republican party's ego, before said party stabbed him in the back to prevent him doing anything his way. The man of action, the living embodiment of some libertarian wet dream do-it-your-way political outsider, will have bit the c*ck that fed him before it shot out its inevitable load and left him to drown, and the world will watch as the most shadenfreude denouement in political history closes on an image of some orange-tinted c*ntbag's lungs collapsing under the weight of 12 months' worth of elephant spunk and a 10 year battle in the Supreme Court.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| wordup 02 Dec 17 1.17pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
It's a joke really. I think America has been pretty relieved by the relative rigidity off its legislative process, meaning that much of the reactionary nonsense Trump has wanted to pass through hasn't been enacted. But on the flip side, Congress and the Senate are so wedded to big business that they can find the numbers to pass a trillion dollar tax cut, even when the bill has been read by no one and has been edited heavily with anonymous handwriting! It's the sort of superstitious, blindly faithful law-making you'd expect to see from the Vatican, or some puppet government in a military dictatorship. To see it in a federal republic which is constantly sucking its own d*ck about its democratic values is a tragedy. This is Trump's first, and quite probably only, major legislative victory. If he does get impeached, then his record, despite all the hoo-ha over his racism, idiocy, threats, tweets, will simply show that he has bowed to the will of Republican party's ego, before said party stabbed him in the back to prevent him doing anything his way. The man of action, the living embodiment of some libertarian wet dream do-it-your-way political outsider, will have bit the c*ck that fed him before it shot out its inevitable load and left him to drown, and the world will watch as the most shadenfreude denouement in political history closes on an image of some orange-tinted c*ntbag's lungs collapsing under the weight of 12 months' worth of elephant spunk and a 10 year battle in the Supreme Court. A victory for big business, and the amendments added to this 'tax plan' ludicrously include: - An abortion law reclassifying life at conception - A clause to drill oil in Alaska’s arctic wildlife preserve - Pulled the mandate for the ACA -13 million to lose insurance Only in America. Not to worry, I'm sure Trump will fire off a few tweets about mexican judges or american football players and the narrative will move on. He'll get those all important virtual high fives by the very same people who'll keel over as result of the policies he helps usher in. If you get people emotionally on side, that's all you need.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 02 Dec 17 5.31pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Dream on Ray, dream on. Trump won't be going anywhere over this chestnut. Lots of other possible pit falls but not this one. I guess it depends on what Flynn knows, and what he has evidence of. Certainly, to get his charges down to one case of lying to the FBI, he has at least one bigger fish - Though I don't think its necessarily Trump, maybe the son in law. Nixon went for less.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 02 Dec 17 5.38pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
On the basis that Flynn's plea deal seems to be about as soft as it could've gone, the expectation is that he's got the goods on someone up the chain - it's only in such circumstances that prosecutors give such favorable deals. Who's up the chain from Flynn? Only Pence* and Trump.
Pence is man of much more meagre means than Trump, who is paying his own substantial legal defense costs while those of Trumps Sr. and Jr. are being picked up by the Republican Party. Flynn was also paying his own defense costs, and the simple fact that their supposed-billionaire boss - and his son, for some reason - are getting a free ride while they're cashing in retirement savings and their kids' college funds may push more Trump underlings into Mueller's open arms. Does anyone imagine that Pence will take the fall for Trump? Nope...didn't think so. This isn't the mafia; Trump turns on people in a nanosecond and everyone in this mess knows it. I suspect Mueller's phone has been blowing up today with people looking to get a deal before there are no more deals to be had. Edited by Ray in Houston (01 Dec 2017 9.20pm) Not necessarily someone up the chain, but it could be someone who connects to a number of people. I'd be surprised if Flynn just has evidence on one person - Likely he has material evidence that can convict one person and testimony that's case worthy to a number of people (possibly corroboration of evidence already obtained). Kushner is looking good, as they had him under oath last week for 90 minutes. If Flynn can provide evidence that proves that Kushner lied under oath, they've got someone right in the centre that they can try to flip (with assured jail time for perjury, as well as other changes). Flip him, and they can probably get everyone.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stirlingsays 02 Dec 17 5.40pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I guess it depends on what Flynn knows, and what he has evidence of. Certainly, to get his charges down to one case of lying to the FBI, he has at least one bigger fish - Though I don't think its necessarily Trump, maybe the son in law. Nixon went for less.
What Trump has or hasn't done would be no worse than Clinton herself on any foreign matter and has no real affect on anything.....Connections between possible incoming administrations and important governments goes on whatever the rules are...bag of old s***e....Of course Russia try to meddle in our politics just like we support democracy movements there...it's the reds under the beds but this time from Democrats who will use any old ruse that suits them. All they care about is getting rid of Trump and they are prepared to misdirect his time on governance obsessing on this years old hyperbolic crap. No better than the tea party before them.....but they so think they are. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Dec 2017 5.42pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 02 Dec 17 5.49pm |
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Originally posted by wordup
A victory for big business, and the amendments added to this 'tax plan' ludicrously include: - An abortion law reclassifying life at conception - A clause to drill oil in Alaska’s arctic wildlife preserve - Pulled the mandate for the ACA -13 million to lose insurance Only in America. Not to worry, I'm sure Trump will fire off a few tweets about mexican judges or american football players and the narrative will move on. He'll get those all important virtual high fives by the very same people who'll keel over as result of the policies he helps usher in. If you get people emotionally on side, that's all you need. If only his supporters weren't so stupid and so easily misdirected eh.....If only they were more sensible like you....oh brother. Some people actually support anti abortion laws.....shock horror....oh how could they! Some people aren't as bothered about environmentalism as others......oh shock horror.....they must attach the same level of importance as people like yourself....or they are just so so so misguided! These is massive criticism on Obamacare. Whatever the rights or wrongs of that America gets what it votes for. But only if people really knew about Trump and the republican party?.....yeah right!.....I genuinely can't believe this line is still pushed. Americans aren't fooled by Trump anymore than they are fooled by any other politician......indeed probably less as this guy actually says what he thinks.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| wordup 02 Dec 17 5.57pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Not necessarily someone up the chain, but it could be someone who connects to a number of people. I'd be surprised if Flynn just has evidence on one person - Likely he has material evidence that can convict one person and testimony that's case worthy to a number of people (possibly corroboration of evidence already obtained). Kushner is looking good, as they had him under oath last week for 90 minutes. If Flynn can provide evidence that proves that Kushner lied under oath, they've got someone right in the centre that they can try to flip (with assured jail time for perjury, as well as other changes). Flip him, and they can probably get everyone. That would be my guess too. One thing is for sure, more is coming to light all of the time so this isn't going away.
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| Ray in Houston Houston 02 Dec 17 6.05pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Nixon was recorded on the phone practically authourising Watergate.....so not really. What Trump has or hasn't done would be no worse than Clinton herself on any foreign matter and has no real affect on anything.....Connections between possible incoming administrations and important governments goes on whatever the rules are...bag of old s***e....Of course Russia try to meddle in our politics just like we support democracy movements there...it's the reds under the beds but this time from Democrats who will use any old ruse that suits them. All they care about is getting rid of Trump and they are prepared to misdirect his time on governance obsessing on this years old hyperbolic crap. No better than the tea party before them.....but they so think they are.
Flynn - as a private citizen - spoke to the Russian ambassador 5 times on the day Obama - the President who is constitutionally in charge of US foreign policy - imposed sanctions on Russia. Flynn was negotiating with Russia over the Trump administration’s future treatment of this - which we know because the conversations were intercepted and recorded. Flynn has said that he did this having been instructed to do so by a senior campaign official (who was at Mar-a-Lago with Trump at the time of the call). This is all very illegal, completely unethical and totally without precedent. So you can take your both sides bulls*** and shove it.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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