The tories have redefined that essential to the British way of life, the Chinese take-away.

Reality: no one path is perfect and without obstacles. I've acknowledged that (as did the campaign). My point however stands: it will be the best thing that has ever happened to the UK. I'm afraid we are not all instant-gratification 24hr-news addicts. Some of us see the big picture and longer term. So, if we don't get a US FTA within the 4 months it took Jordan, or if it us longer than the average 18 months it currently takes, so bloody what?

It's a "price" worth paying to be out of a progressively centralising, federalising profligate political experiment for which (with incoming net recipient members) we will pay ever more into, have ever less influence over, and hand ever more authority and competence to.

And herein lay the problem with the Remainiac campaign. They spent so much time trying to terrify us, they didn't offer up what our future (or even a positive future) would hold under the EU. We've gone from a trading association of a few nations to smuggling in a 28-bloc federalist constitution through the back door in the space of 40 years. No one could tell us what laws we'd have rammed through into our statute books in 10 years time, which destitute countries we'd next be bankrolling, what our budget contributions would be next year, or even how many economic migrants would arrive. Little wonder the Leave side focused on the complete lack of control we have over such fundamentals.

The deflection, or even outright lie that a vote for Remain was a vote for the status quo was utterly outrageous, and it showed in polling afterwards: voters were not sold on an ever-closer EU superstate and more damning still, the Remain side lacked the integrity and honesty in selling this as both their position and the inevitable fate of this country.

So, if you'll excuse me, I'll happily take some short-term inconvenience and obstacles (much of it engineered by that lovely progressive club you lot fantasise over) to be well rid of the EU.

Remain didn't push the reform from within and power of veto angle enough imo.

Guess the choice now is who do we most trust to lead the negotiations? As it is, it's up in the air who we'll be dealing with. As I said earlier we're arguing about conjecture and what ifs.

Personally I think that some form of movement(not necessarily free) will be a non negotiable if we are to get any kind of decent deal.

Do you think Theresa likes it hard or soft?

As a european I am against any concession or deal with the UK.

You divorced so f**k of out of it and take your brexit with you.

Cheerio!

Why, at the very very minimum, can't we have exactly what Canada has? What is so terrible about that?

No ECJ jurisdiction. No EU budget payments. No freedom of movement. No tariffs on 94-100% of lines (depending on sector). Trade with the 5th largest economy. Passporting will in any respect be covered by MIFD2.

If we get a worse deal than this, it surely demonstrates the EU hypocritically does not follow the spirit of their own Article 8, whilst insisting we should "respect their principles". Moreover, that it petulantly values political gain over mutual economic prosperity (again at odds with their precious treaty).

CETA is by no means perfect - many aspects, particularly around the opening up of public contracts to EU tender, I would seek to negotiate on. But as a starting point, is it unreasonable to use CETA as a basis of negotiations, with some grandfather provisions for existing citizens in place?

Can someone tell me why this is so unreasonable?

Yup. That's one of the problems with the EU, right? with these multilateral deals? Do you know where most of that time goes? Agreeing and harmonising standards.

I raised, in this thread maaany months ago, exactly this point. We are currently 100% converged with EU standards. We just don't have the regulatory divergence overhead the EU and Canadian markets experienced.

Thoughts Nick?

Pro USA & Israel

Well for starters you had a whole lot to say about another supposed fan of the Red & Blue (Farage) so I was just wondering what your thoughts were on Parish & Hoskins supporting a Leave campaign & contributing a fair chunk of change to the cause.

Pro USA & Israel