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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 05 Jun 17 12.35pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by Part Time James

Good. I'll ignore the sarcastic tones and assume we do agree with the original point I made.

When qualified yes, yes i do. But in its original form no. A bit too Daily Mail for me.

 


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Michaelawt85 Flag Bexley 05 Jun 17 12.36pm Send a Private Message to Michaelawt85 Add Michaelawt85 as a friend

Originally posted by Part Time James

I know people that work in London as their base that aren't travelling in to work because they are afraid.

If your argument is that out of the entire population of the UK it's only the minority that are afraid then I might agree. If you're saying no one is afraid to live their life normally right now then I'm not going to able to take you seriously enough to discuss it.

Edited by Part Time James (05 Jun 2017 12.26pm)

I was at a concert at the Albert hall last night. The odd empty seat at a sell out concert but there could be loads of reasons for that. I felt a little nervous about going but was fine once there. During the interval a police officer appeared and was walking around in the venue and two women to the side of me appeared noticeably agitated by an officer being there and were asking the steward what was happening and was everything ok and so on. Lots and lots of police around the closer we got to London as we drove there .

Just to add security wise it was open bag shine a torch inside job done. No frisk, no pat down, no metal detectors . My husband was waved straight through without a second glance

Edited by Michaelawt85 (05 Jun 2017 12.39pm)

 


When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC

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Stirlingsays Flag 05 Jun 17 12.37pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

There are Jews who have openly abandoned their religion. However, Muslims that do are subject to the death penalty in many Islamic countries, it's a bit like trying to leave the Mafia. Has Khan disavowed his religion?

Edited by hedgehog50 (05 Jun 2017 12.28pm)

It's very true that to be publicly known as a secular Muslims in most Islamic countries in the world would be seriously risking your life.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jun 2017 12.37pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 05 Jun 17 12.39pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's very true that to be publicly known as a secular Muslims in most Islamic countries in the world would be seriously risking your life.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jun 2017 12.37pm)

What is meant by 'secular muslim'? It sounds a bit like a 'vegetarian meat-eater' to me.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 05 Jun 17 12.42pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

"Jew" is an ethnic as well as religious definition. You can renounce Judaism but you'd still be a Jew.

islam is a religion. And that's all. You can renounce islam if you're a muslim but all that means is that you're not muslim.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 05 Jun 17 12.43pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

What is meant by 'secular muslim'? It sounds a bit like a 'vegetarian meat-eater' to me.

Culturally you can be muslim without religious adherence. Liberal Turkish are mostly sufi-born but don't feel the need to pray five times a day nor believe in the turban-headed sky fairy either but they will have been brought up with benign muslim values. Sufism has a generous, pleasant god. So even if agnostic those values will have an influence.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Jun 17 12.54pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

Culturally you can be muslim without religious adherence. Liberal Turkish are mostly sufi-born but don't feel the need to pray five times a day nor believe in the turban-headed sky fairy either but they will have been brought up with benign muslim values. Sufism has a generous, pleasant god. So even if agnostic those values will have an influence.

That could be said of most of us with Christian values. Religious values are often practical and not related to worship of God. That is normally the bit that scares you into adhering to them.
The specific religion is overplayed in this situation. It just so happens that these terrorists are Muslims.

It follows that they live within the Muslim community and people who are prone to such powerful belief in god are easily fooled into doing things that most of us would consider to be insane. That is why we have to act decisively before the disease spreads further in that community.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (05 Jun 2017 12.55pm)

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 05 Jun 17 1.02pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

What is meant by 'secular muslim'? It sounds a bit like a 'vegetarian meat-eater' to me.

A secular Muslims can still be religious or they can have rejected the religion.

If they are religious it basically means that they accept the separation of Mosque and state....essentially a secular Muslim who still follows the religion is a westernised Muslim who follows liberal values......Most Muslims here care far more what their mosque leaders and family say rather than say.....what the law is...It's why we have sharia courts here.

Then you have your secular Muslims who are atheist/agnostic/other

It's like being a cultural Christian. You feel a connection to the people of the religion without actually believing in the rituals or stories as true.

Homosexual Muslims for example.

Lots of these type of Muslims keep their heads down....Some brave ones can be seen on YouTube channels. I follow some of them.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 05 Jun 17 1.11pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Culturally you can be muslim without religious adherence. Liberal Turkish are mostly sufi-born but don't feel the need to pray five times a day nor believe in the turban-headed sky fairy either but they will have been brought up with benign muslim values. Sufism has a generous, pleasant god. So even if agnostic those values will have an influence.

Such as?

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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NKEagle Flag Pyongyang 05 Jun 17 1.12pm Send a Private Message to NKEagle Add NKEagle as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Wars are typically far to expensive to be about non-material issues for the most part. They do tend to be about power, status, wealth, resources and maintaining access to those.

Civil conflicts less so, to start with, but usually the ones who focus on those issues, tend to win.

For the leaders and elites in a society, that's the motivation. They would benefit personally from the attainment of another society's treasure. But they need a means to convince the population at large, almost all of whom will not benefit, of the righteousness of the cause. Religion is the perfect tool for that. Throughout all of history, there's never been a better tool for mass control than religion.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Jun 17 1.15pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

A secular Muslims can still be religious or they can have rejected the religion.

If they are religious it basically means that they accept the separation of Mosque and state....essentially a secular Muslim who still follows the religion is a westernised Muslim who follows liberal values......Most Muslims here care far more what their mosque leaders and family say rather than say.....what the law is...It's why we have sharia courts here.

Then you have your secular Muslims who are atheist/agnostic/other

It's like being a cultural Christian. You feel a connection to the people of the religion without actually believing in the rituals or stories as true.

Homosexual Muslims for example.

Lots of these type of Muslims keep their heads down....Some brave ones can be seen on YouTube channels. I follow some of them.

Most of us are aren't we? Christianity has sculpted our culture and still influences our institutions. That doesn't mean I feel any affiliation to that religion or those that follow it.
It is just a fact of history.
Britain also has a history of widespread secularism, where as Many Muslim immigrants and their offspring come from a very different background where religion is the driving force behind their lives. It is a disaster waiting to happen and it has started already.

 

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Part Time James Flag 05 Jun 17 1.16pm Send a Private Message to Part Time James Add Part Time James as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

When qualified yes, yes i do. But in its original form no. A bit too Daily Mail for me.

Pedant!

But that's 1-1 because you just said it was patently untrue before you asked for, and obtained, qualification. So there!

We ought to go on Question Time....

 




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