Weren't you just complaining about over the top comments?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

- The Russians did attempt to interfere with the election. Every intelligence agency agrees.

- Trump did try to overturn sanctions - and indeed a bipartisan vote had to take place to stop him doing so.

- When there are increased tensions between left and right, it does create opportunities to exploit. How exactly do you think Fox News and Msnbc make their money?

You said 'progressives' were a mirror image of the 'ultra right' the other day. If your dials are set with that type of thinking, you're of course going to notice something wrong with my post and let the ludicrous post aimed at Jamie have a free pass.

Edited by wordup (25 Aug 2017 7.05pm)

Of course I'm not, it's chalk and cheese. I'm suggesting that the US relationship with Russia is possibly not a great example to give right now all things considered.

'On his knees' as in he's the one person Trump appears to not want to say anything bad about, and wanting to remove consequences of their electoral interference.

Edited by wordup (25 Aug 2017 6.58pm)

Well, you said "'progressives' and the ultra right are kind of mirror images of themselves. As manipulation of narratives and 'winning' is more important to them anything else. For them there isn't the same level of balance that can normally be found by people not buying into agendas as much as they have a keen attachment to accuracy."

It's very much presented as a like for like comparison, not a mention of antifa - which of course would've been a rational comparison - and is similar to the type of extreme skew I criticised so it's no wonder you came barreling in .

So you're telling me that you don't disagree with what I've written but you picked me up on it anyway, apparently because I neglected to mention that Obama was bad too when he was in power?! Come on.. So nothing was even 'over the top' about my comment anyway?

Indeed my post and those around it mocked the partisan 'good' and 'bad' view of political sides rather than contributed to it. I quite often criticise both sides. I find that not doing so negates the point of contributing. If someone says one political persuasion 'hate america' and blatantly makes up OTT stuff about what someone else has said, I'm happy to point that out though where I see it.

Edited by wordup (25 Aug 2017 9.32pm)

I do remember writing something like that....on what page is this by the way? If I used the word, 'progressive' then that was a mistake because....as I say, not all progressives agree with the use of violence as antifa do.

I'm very susceptible to mistakes and it's right to criticise me if I make them.

Yep, it was a mistake if I typed that, but an understandable one as many progressives are protecting antifa tactics....but it's certainly true that plenty on the left, including some progressives don't.

I thought I had been clear in what I meant here.

I criticised how you characterised one of these points in particular because you were indeed over the top, to paraphrase you....'Trump being on his knees to Russia'. As you had just criticised a poster for being over the top I then see you instantly committing the same 'crime'. Trump isn't 'on his knees'....it's very Nick of you.

As I said, I don't personally have a problem with this style but if you criticise it in others then if you do it yourself straight away then you are going to suffer the slings and arrows.

I've noticed you have a thin skin so I knew you'd react but nevertheless I considered the point valid to make.....sue me.

Yes, I personally find you one of the more even handed posters despite us disagreeing on plenty.

I agree with criticising what you find, regardless of what perspective it comes from. While I'm a massive defender of free speech, even offensive speech I'm likewise a defender of the free freedom to criticise it...hopefully in an orderly way. The marketplace of non violent ideas must be heard.

As for your comment that people on general talk are reluctant to criticise the excesses of those on their side of the aisle....well you have a point there....it appears to be a character flaw that most of us on Hol exhibit......People don't tend to respond well to criticism, accurate or otherwise....yourself perhaps being a case in point. So I guess it's a case of people picking their battles and keeping their allies by letting the sleeping dogs lie.

But I agree with the general thrust of your point....a debating forum would ideally be free of egos and we should all view ourselves as independent thinkers rather than defenders of 'sides'....though it's a sure way of being hated by plenty.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Aug 2017 10.14pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I can't believe people still are using the look at them instead argument rather than the fact that gun toting white supremacists / fascists were marching through the streets.

Fascists marching through the streets and people who come out to stand against this are the ones some people on here want to put the spotlight on.