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Cpfc1861 17 Jan 21 5.02pm | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
That's two people you've called a loon. I have to agree I often find myself sitting in my hands and clapping the word loon deeply offends me im not mad just merely an artist a messy one at that.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Jan 21 5.07pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Gore didn't concede for 37 days. I have zero issues with Trump not conceding and his 'rhetoric' was fine. The problem is with people like you not being able to accept that America is beyond polarised and that the Democrats created that over the last four years far more than Trump. Gore's situation was a mile different to Trump's as I am quite sure you are aware. Gore initially conceded then withdrew it when the problems with the machines emerged. No-one disputes that there was a problem and that it took a long time to sort out. When it looked as though it would last even longer he conceded in the sake of national unity, saying “partisan rancor must now be put aside.” As Trump's rhetoric was responsible for almost all that happened thinking it "fine" is disgraceful. It wasn't. Yes the USA is polarised and will go on being so. The Democrats have not caused that. They are suffering from it just as badly as anyone else. Trump didn't cause it either but he increased it and did nothing at all to try to bridge it.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Jan 21 5.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
So why were the National Guard not around on the 6th? The National Guard are military. Deployed under state authority makes sense on one level but even so, complete over-kill. A soldier shooting a civilian is the same no matter who has deployed them. Cops are much much better at crowd control. Trained for it, especially I would guess Washington Cops who must be used to this kind of thing more than most other forces, all of which adds to the general sense that what happened on the 6th was absolutely preventable. Why the security was insufficient on the 6th is a question which has not yet been answered. It was flagged up so much that even I was expecting something to kick off. My guess about using the National Guard rather than just the Police is numbers. Bodies in the way to push and shove when needed. Vehicles to be moved and barriers erected. I expect the FBI to do the intelligence and the Police to make the arrests.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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cryrst The garden of England 17 Jan 21 6.10pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Why the security was insufficient on the 6th is a question which has not yet been answered. It was flagged up so much that even I was expecting something to kick off. My guess about using the National Guard rather than just the Police is numbers. Bodies in the way to push and shove when needed. Vehicles to be moved and barriers erected. I expect the FBI to do the intelligence and the Police to make the arrests. The arrests of whom and when? Are you in the know?
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Stirlingsays 17 Jan 21 7.49pm | |
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How the businesses in those Democratic cities would have loved to have seen this attitude towards law and order last summer. Instead of what they got, which was, 'people will do what they do'.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 17 Jan 21 8.38pm | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
That's two people you've called a loon. The fact you’re even having to ask that question says enough And in this instance it wasn’t a mistake.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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Stirlingsays 17 Jan 21 8.42pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Gore's situation was a mile different to Trump's as I am quite sure you are aware. Gore initially conceded then withdrew it when the problems with the machines emerged. No-one disputes that there was a problem and that it took a long time to sort out. When it looked as though it would last even longer he conceded in the sake of national unity, saying “partisan rancor must now be put aside.” As Trump's rhetoric was responsible for almost all that happened thinking it "fine" is disgraceful. It wasn't. Yes the USA is polarised and will go on being so. The Democrats have not caused that. They are suffering from it just as badly as anyone else. Trump didn't cause it either but he increased it and did nothing at all to try to bridge it. Anyone who has read the sheer bile you have written on these pages over years, which has almost been word for word a repeat of opinions coming out of the Democratic media will understand that your contention that polarisation is just Trump is fantasy. Trump is a polarisating figure this is accurate, however I can't think of one major Democatic figure who isn't. Trump never called for violence, yet I can pull up Democratics like Waters who directly called for Democrats to confront Republicans and 'push back on them'...which is precisely what rioting Democratic supporters did.....Yet, that was met with silence from the hypocrites you prefer. Regardless, the forces pulling the US apart are deeply ingrained and set. While the Democratic party reflects its base, the Republican one is split.....once the Republican leadership properly reflects its grass roots then its current representation will improve...For example the conservatives in the Congress who didn't sort out silicon valley because they were being lobbied and funded by them. The out of touch who came on here around the 6th and after saying the Democrats would be a 'healing' force get to watch the dimness of that prediction over the coming months. Democrats can censor the right but they can't censor the consequences of their actions.....which won't be healing but the non compliance that Democratic states gave Trump. Reap what you sow.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 17 Jan 21 8.43pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
How the businesses in those Democratic cities would have loved to have seen this attitude towards law and order last summer. Instead of what they got, which was, 'people will do what they do'. I mean, after the first / start of rioting I agree, but this is an inauguration. There literally cannot be any room for error - disruption of the process would be even more disastrous than the nonsense the other week. On many levels - domestically, politically, socially, internationally... So I get why there’s a strong show of force vs a riot. But I agree, more could have been done - but as I’ve said before it may simply have been tactical in some cases. Fence in to a small area and leave them to it rather than charge, escalate and risk lines breaking and a wider area of the city being threatened.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 17 Jan 21 8.45pm | |
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Originally posted by Cpfc1861
I have to agree I often find myself sitting in my hands and clapping the word loon deeply offends me im not mad just merely an artist a messy one at that. Sitting in your hands? Intriguing
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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cryrst The garden of England 17 Jan 21 8.49pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
The fact you’re even having to ask that question says enough And in this instance it wasn’t a mistake. It wasnt me either, but leftys do have selective memories!
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Stirlingsays 17 Jan 21 8.52pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
I mean, after the first / start of rioting I agree, but this is an inauguration. There literally cannot be any room for error - disruption of the process would be even more disastrous than the nonsense the other week. On many levels - domestically, politically, socially, internationally... So I get why there’s a strong show of force vs a riot. But I agree, more could have been done - but as I’ve said before it may simply have been tactical in some cases. Fence in to a small area and leave them to it rather than charge, escalate and risk lines breaking and a wider area of the city being threatened. Ha, you don't even believe in the system. A Democratic administration is only a means towards a more globalistic end for you. From what I see they have gone over the top in Washington, but who knows....maybe they needed to. However, it's a big country and as unfortunate as it will be steam finds its release at the weakest points.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 17 Jan 21 8.57pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
Just a couple of points. Essentially the National Guard are the Army. Same uniforms, equipment. Our equivalent of the Territorials. On the streets you have a solider. In terms of the possibility for an Army v National Guard fisticuffs then I would argue that in terms of the command structure for this particular event the possibility does exist. Each branch ultimately answers to a different person. Does that therefore mean I think this will happen? Then, and by a clear margin, I would say no. But still, the issue remains around why are they using military forces on this scale for what is primarily a crowd-control issue? It is ALWAYS a poor idea to deploy military troops in any kind of civil disorder scenario. That is not their role and they are not trained for it. Friend of mine who have been in the police even question at times the wisdom of employing ex-military for a variety of reasons. You ship in other police units. Bring them in from across the state. Utilise county forces if you have to. But putting troops on the streets to control civilians is a sign you have lost. Of weakness. Of no faith in the actual people tasked to maintain law and order. Unless you harbour serious fears about a sustained and planned attempt to use armed force to prevent Biden being made President. And there is only one organisation in the US truly capable of making that happen.... You’re right, but they’re still not THE army Which was exactly my point about levels of escalation, and as Stirling has shared the army have not been deployed domestically in the state since the Vietnam war. The command structure as you say does allow for it but my point was the probability, especially after clear unambiguous statements have been issued as to the army getting involved in any of this, is so low it’s not even worth mentioning. If we thought everything regardless of probability was a strong possibility we’d never move. Makes more sense to focus on what’s likely to happen than extremely unlikely And finally - as someone else has already pointed out, the potential for multi state violence is high - I don’t see the strategic value in drawing personnel away from other parts of the state or even other states as you then leave those places more vulnerable. As has been reported there do appear to have been multiple threats of armed violence, or worse. Having seen the numbers involved the other week it makes total sense to deploy armed guard rather than the police. Police against a threat like that would be far more exposed... if it did get into an armed standoff I’d rather people that were properly trained for it were engaging than a load of donut eating trigger happies. If anything they’d end up starting it. I don’t see it as a lack of faith, I see it as logic. Putting police out there would be an odd move IF the threats that have been reported are credible. Also, if you’d just witnessed a mob storming the capitol don’t you think you’d be within your rights to go all out to make sure it doesn’t happen again?
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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