Confederate Statues
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wordup  26 Aug 17 1.46pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
When I say, 'identity' politics I talking about the politics of 'skin colour'. When you widen that how to talk about political demographics....that's moving into different areas. That's fine of course and something to be discussed but it wasn't what I was referring to. I don't accept that I have excused or diverted from the far right. Indeed I have explicitly criticised them. Where has Nick explicitly criticised Antifa? He hasn't, indeed he has supported them, whereas I haven't supported violence from whatever side. I don't believe the equivalency is there. I have condemned the murder of a protester. I also condemn the violence from the left....for example, that Sanders supporter who shot at Republicans at that Baseball game. I hear a lot people condemning Trump for his language and suggesting it encourages the far right but if this indeed has any validity then it's just as true of the language of his opponents. The Arpaio situation seems to be around the area of illegal immigrants. I don't know much about the rights or wrongs of what he did legally. I know Presidents often pardon in some iffy circumstances, maybe this is one of those or maybe not. Anyone half way fair condemns these murders for political reasons on either side, yes. Or should at least. Identity politics expands well beyond whatever template you wish to apply to it that handily excludes anything you personally have to think about. Much like how virtue signaling and dog whistle politics are interconnected for the left and right, identity politics is too. If you're concerned with people overly identifying with race, or gender or whatever, since that's part of identity politics, it helps to realise how it manifests itself across the board. It's quite obvious to anyone open to reason why Arpaio was chosen as the first to be pardoned, just as it's obvious why Trump the very same day decided to ban trans people from entering the military. Shuffling these things off as not mattering because they're about 'demographics' is ludicrous. These things are signaling a message to certain types of people who identity themselves and others in a certain way. Your comments almost always point to the view of certain demographics as some kind of an unquestionable default and all of these other smaller groups causing problems, and you behave and craft your beliefs accordingly.
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 Stirlingsays 26 Aug 17 2.04pm |
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Originally posted by wordup
Anyone half way fair condemns these murders for political reasons on either side, yes. Or should at least. Identity politics expands well beyond whatever template you wish to apply to it that handily excludes anything you personally have to think about. Much like how virtue signaling and dog whistle politics are interconnected for the left and right, identity politics is too. If you're concerned with people overly identifying with race, or gender or whatever, since that's part of identity politics, it helps to realise how it manifests itself across the board. It's quite obvious to anyone open to reason why Arpaio was chosen as the first to be pardoned, just as it's obvious why Trump the very same day decided to ban trans people from entering the military. Shuffling these things off as not mattering because they're about 'demographics' is ludicrous. These things are signaling a message to certain types of people who identity themselves and others in a certain way. Your comments almost always point to the view of certain demographics as some kind of an unquestionable default and all of these other smaller groups causing problems, and you behave and craft your beliefs accordingly.
I'm well aware that 'identity' politics exists outside race, LBGT for example but I was referring to race and not talking about the wider elements. Are you saying this can't be done in isolation? If so I think it's just a distraction from the point. I just don't know about the Arpaio situation. It appears to be a dog whistle for the left and that's about the extent of what I know. The Trans military position is a situation where I seem to be in the middle of both. For me, if an individual satisfies their job description then what they do in their spare time is their concern. So, on a purely ideological level I have no issues with trans people serving in the military if that's what they want to do and they meet the requirements....same for anybody. What I object to is finding out that the US military had to pay for their transitioning costs. Now as an employer I find that wholly unacceptable. So, employing someone who is trans....no problem....taking on their costs as trans....big problem.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| wordup 26 Aug 17 2.37pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'm well aware that 'identity' politics exists outside race, LBGT for example but I was referring to race and not talking about the wider elements. Are you saying this can't be done in isolation? If so I think it's just a distraction from the point. I just don't know about the Arpaio situation. It appears to be a dog whistle for the left and that's about the extent of what I know. The Trans military position is a situation where I seem to be in the middle of both. For me, if an individual satisfies their job description then what they do in their spare time is their concern. So, on a purely ideological level I have no issues with trans people serving in the military if that's what they want to do and they meet the requirements....same for anybody. What I object to is finding out that the US military had to pay for their transitioning costs. Now as an employer I find that wholly unacceptable. So, employing someone who is trans....no problem....taking on their costs as trans....big problem.
Trump isn't up at night sweating thinking "my god, what are we going to do about this urgent trans issue in the military", because there isn't one is there. And military commanders haven't been banging on his door over this, they were as surprised that he made these announcements off his own back as anyone else. The whole point of suddenly announcing this without pressing need is to appeal to the IDENTITY of those he wants to keep onside. If you want to isolate aspects of identity politics that involve excluding people you aren't particularly bothered about, then fine, but it's relevant. You appear to think that you are some kind of unquestionable default value and as such it's impossible for you personally be caught up in identity politics. You beat the same drum on here with regularity and carve a very clear path about which groups you believe need to explain themselves day in day out and by omission which don't. Edited by wordup (26 Aug 2017 3.31pm)
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 26 Aug 17 2.44pm |
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In the past academic year, Cambridge university students complained about the serving of 'culturally insensitive' food (exotic dishes that didn't properly reflect the countries they claimed to be from); the musical 'Aida' was cancelled at Bristol University following a 'student revolt' over white students playing as Egyptian slaves; Edinburgh University's fancy-dress police ruled that students must not dress up as Pocahontas; SOAS London University students demanded that their curriculum be 'de-colonised' and that 'white philosophers' be dropped from the syllabus [not sure how many philosophers that would leave to be studied].
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| .TUX. 26 Aug 17 3.02pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
In the past academic year, Cambridge university students complained about the serving of 'culturally insensitive' food (exotic dishes that didn't properly reflect the countries they claimed to be from); the musical 'Aida' was cancelled at Bristol University following a 'student revolt' over white students playing as Egyptian slaves; Edinburgh University's fancy-dress police ruled that students must not dress up as Pocahontas; SOAS London University students demanded that their curriculum be 'de-colonised' and that 'white philosophers' be dropped from the syllabus [not sure how many philosophers that would leave to be studied]. Although i agree, to me it's no more frightening than those who already populate public life yet can't see that they themselves have been just as 'manipulated' as those they deride. Both 'sides' need their heads knocking together.
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| wordup 26 Aug 17 3.12pm |
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Originally posted by .TUX.
Although i agree, to me it's no more frightening than those who already populate public life yet can't see that they themselves have been just as 'manipulated' as those they deride. Both 'sides' need their heads knocking together. Yes it's all the same, whether it's some safe space lover, screaming 'cultural appropriation' every time he sees a white guy with dreadlocks, or an alt-right prat overly obsessed with white identity. Pointless little enclaves fit to be exploited by politicians they imagine will protect their 'values'. Edited by wordup (26 Aug 2017 3.22pm)
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| Stirlingsays 26 Aug 17 3.25pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
In the past academic year, Cambridge university students complained about the serving of 'culturally insensitive' food (exotic dishes that didn't properly reflect the countries they claimed to be from); the musical 'Aida' was cancelled at Bristol University following a 'student revolt' over white students playing as Egyptian slaves; Edinburgh University's fancy-dress police ruled that students must not dress up as Pocahontas; SOAS London University students demanded that their curriculum be 'de-colonised' and that 'white philosophers' be dropped from the syllabus [not sure how many philosophers that would leave to be studied]. This video by Tim Pool on how things could shape up on 'wrong-think' is also very worrying.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| .TUX. 26 Aug 17 4.10pm |
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Originally posted by wordup
Yes it's all the same, whether it's some safe space lover, screaming 'cultural appropriation' every time he sees a white guy with dreadlocks, or an alt-right prat overly obsessed with white identity. Pointless little enclaves fit to be exploited by politicians they imagine will protect their 'values'. Edited by wordup (26 Aug 2017 3.22pm) Agreed. Such a shame.
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| wordup 26 Aug 17 4.27pm |
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Originally posted by .TUX.
Agreed. Such a shame. I think it's a comfort thing, people like to imagine that someone with power is looking out for them. You're better to rely on yourself and those around you than a grinning politician of any political hue. Some let their politics and preferences ruin them. It really isn't 'that' hard to get along with people. Most differences are illusionary or insignificant anyway.
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| .TUX. 26 Aug 17 4.53pm |
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Originally posted by wordup
I think it's a comfort thing, people like to imagine that someone with power is looking out for them. You're better to rely on yourself and those around you than a grinning politician of any political hue. Some let their politics and preferences ruin them. It really isn't 'that' hard to get along with people. Most differences are illusionary or insignificant anyway. People finding comfort in a financial system that (by design) continually robs them along with a political system that continually ignores them is a job well done for those who govern.
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| wordup 26 Aug 17 5.34pm |
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Originally posted by .TUX.
People finding comfort in a financial system that (by design) continually robs them along with a political system that continually ignores them is a job well done for those who govern. Yes, politician are adept at getting people to vote against their own interests while telling them that they're fighting their corner.
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| .TUX. 26 Aug 17 5.40pm |
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Originally posted by wordup
Yes, politician are adept at getting tits to vote against their own interests while telling them that they're fighting their corner. EFA
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