I have literally complained about this kind of thing for years on Hol.....I don't remember you being particularly bothered....you're only bothered bringing this up because of your desperation to defend the corrupt puppet you like. Even with the non point that others are corrupt.

You have nothing but distraction.

I applaud anyone, be they left or right, who follows the money and tries to reveal the truth to the public....wealth is being legally stolen.

Senator Elizabeth Warren, for example, makes 174,000 per year for 10 years (1.7 million in total earnings) in her job, but has somehow reportedly accumulated 73 million: she isn't untypical.

Implying that corruption, money laundering, havens and all the rest of it are done by others, usually by their hired financial teams...here and anywhere the superrich operate and so that this provides some kind of excuse for Zelensky is just displaying the moral abyss that certain people operate in.

You are willing to stare into that abyss and call it neon.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Sep 2023 10.30pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Both the Republicans and Democrats passed those Ukraine bills without the need for what happened to the money to be accounted for.....I know it's quite incredible....it was loudly complained about at the time.

Only responsible people like Raud Paul voted against this lack of oversight and it's quite incredible.

It fits with several of the US's long term strategies. Forever money for the military industrial complex....and the need to diminish Europe as an economic rival....to which keeping Russia and Germany apart being that principle objective.

Hence, bye bye pipeline first chance they had.

Some people think they want to split Russia up but I think that even the state department aren't that stupid, considering it has the world's second largest nuclear stock pile and a hell of a lot of annoyed hardliners. Instead they want to weaken it considerably at little relative cost to themselves.

It was a massive gamble and it's created a far worse situation than what existed before.....but that's these guys all the time.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Sep 2023 4.59pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

The west was built by elites who were very different to those in these positions today.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Really? Well, no doubt you used it to attack conservatives when the reality is that the underlying corruption and criminality is endemic within the high wealth class....and our political classes largely benefit from it rather than fight it...looking to squeeze as much from it as they can......and your mate is a prime example.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

You do type nonsense Syrup old bean.

You refer to wealth corruption as some kind of own when it's not even something I refute but something I've referred to far more times than you with Zelensky being right in the thick of it.

As I stated the US just replaced his appointments. Untold aid money has slipped down the back of the sofa and yet you're on here pretending to care about corruption.

Straighten your syrup.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

And here we come down to it.

The truth is you aren't interested in the obvious fact that Zelensky is a crook and has been one for years. No, for you this is pure tribalism. This comes down to Bush's low IQ doctrine, 'if you aren't with us you're against us'.

I don't know how many times I have to state it but here it is again.

Yes, Russia is corrupt...whether or not Ukraine is more or less corrupt is, in my view, which propaganda you want to listen to....but corrupt is corrupt.

I'll say the obvious again, Putin isn't a good guy, in fact he's more like a mafia boss and he isn't fighting for any interest I have.

However, I'm not being asked to support Putin. I'm being asked to support Zelensky....It's the old, 'Uncle Joe' routine from WW2 again.

I've made my position clear....but for someone like you it's clearly hard to understand. My position is what is best for my country and the west in general. That is not the same as saying I support the fools leading it.

This war has no winning outcome for Europe and hence Britain (only a possible superficial short term one for America) Even ignoring the massive increase in nuclear threat now, there are only degrees of loss both economic and strategic for Europe. This is why I supported a negotiated end to this war shortly after it started, one which both Johnson and Biden scuppered. That decision has cost hundreds of thousands of lives and that will continue.

It results in a further divided and confrontational world, with more emerging economic systems specifically designed to damage mine. All of that is a giant disaster and could have been avoided. I pointed out how earlier in the thread all the way back from the fall of the Berlin wall....it's not rocket science.

Supporting this war instead of a negotiated settlement has been a disaster, both for the future of Ukraine and for everyone's safety. But no, for you it's all about binary simpletonism because 'Russia bad'. Sorry, I don't support bad positions that worsen outcomes.

This is a proxy war driven by emotion and tribalism and continued by the same. Nothing good comes from its continuation whatever the outcome.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Sep 2023 10.04am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)