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Confederate Statues
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legaleagle  28 Aug 17 3.13pm |
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Originally posted by .TUX.
Here's one black persons view..... Robert E. Lee’s wartime servant, William Mack Lee – who had been freed 10 years before the war started – said of his master: ''I was raised by one of the greatest men in the world. There was never one born of a woman greater than General Robert E. Lee, according to my judgment''. William Lee accompanied General Lee – or “Marse Robert,” as he called him – throughout the entire war. Would that be the same Robert E Lee who (according to the Daily Telegraph this month).. "Documents show Lee was cruel to his slaves and encouraged his overseers to severely beat slaves captured after trying to escape. Historian Elizabeth Brown Pryor said in a 2008 American Heritage article that Lee was angry about the slaves' demands for freedom and "resorted to increasingly harsh measures to maintain control," breaking up most slave families. One slave at Arlington, Pryor noted, called Lee, "the worst man I ever see."
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  Hrolf The Ganger 28 Aug 17 3.56pm |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
Would that be the same Robert E Lee who (according to the Daily Telegraph this month).. "Documents show Lee was cruel to his slaves and encouraged his overseers to severely beat slaves captured after trying to escape. Historian Elizabeth Brown Pryor said in a 2008 American Heritage article that Lee was angry about the slaves' demands for freedom and "resorted to increasingly harsh measures to maintain control," breaking up most slave families. One slave at Arlington, Pryor noted, called Lee, "the worst man I ever see." Yep. Keeping on arguing about statues and historical figures is so much easier than dealing with the real issues in the Black community.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 28 Aug 17 3.59pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Yep. Keeping on arguing about statues and historical figures is so much easier than dealing with the real issues in the Black community. like fascists marching in their backyard?
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| Stirlingsays 28 Aug 17 4.20pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Yep. Keeping on arguing about statues and historical figures is so much easier than dealing with the real issues in the Black community. Ha....there's the rub. It's like the lefties living in nice safe areas saying how everyone else should think and life. I mean, how long have they had 'diversity programs' in the states? They are failures, despite being racist programs that push themselves as righting wrongs. Don't get me wrong. I think if a child is born black or white in America to a workless family of low education then they do not have anything like the same life chances of a child born to a well adjusted middle class family with a good work ethic. Being born black into a bad neighborhood probably puts you at the bottom of that pile though. However the reality is the reality for all these problems. The solutions can only come from within the communities themselves and the cultures they take on. This is why the group that earns the highest per individual in America is Asian. The 'progressives' believe that society should change...It's been selling this impossible BS to these communities for decades and unintentionally stalling them as a result...It wants and gets their votes...But have they really helped them, not how I see it....Nope it's promoting cultural failure as equality. Families with good cultures eventually succeed, regardless of race. I don't agree with Malcolm X on much but on one point he had something. He viewed white liberals as worse than white conservatives because he viewed them as hypocrites. Well, as I see it, every political viewpoint is open to hypocrisy but the 'progressive' position far more than any other. It seeks to twist and deny human nature far more than other systems and in the process causes far more harm than good. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Aug 2017 4.48pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 28 Aug 17 4.30pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
like fascists marching in their backyard? I thought it was in the streets. If fascists wanted to march in my back yard I'd ask them to remove their boots and be careful of the begonias.
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| matt_himself Matataland 28 Aug 17 4.32pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Yep. Keeping on arguing about statues and historical figures is so much easier than dealing with the real issues in the Black community. Quite:
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 28 Aug 17 4.32pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Ha....there's the rub. It's like the lefties living in nice safe areas saying how everyone else should think and life. I mean, how long have they had 'diversity programs' in the states? They are failures, despite being racist programs that push themselves as righting wrongs. Don't get me wrong. I think if a child is born black or white in America to a workless family of low education then they do not have anything like the same life chances of a child born to a well adjusted middle class family with a good work ethic. Being born black into a bad neighborhood probably puts you at the bottom of that pile though. However the reality is the reality for all these problems. The solutions can only come from within the communities themselves and the cultures they take on. This is why the group that earns the highest per individual in America is Asian. The 'progressives' believe that society should change...It's been selling this impossible BS to these communities for decades and unintentionally stalling them as a result...Nope it's promoting cultural failure as equality. I don't agree with Malcolm X on much but on one point he had something. He viewed white liberals as worse than white conservatives because he viewed them as hypocrites. Well, as I see it, every political viewpoint is open to hypocrisy but the 'progressive' position far more than any other. It seeks to twist and deny human nature far more than other systems and in the process causes far more harm than good. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Aug 2017 4.24pm) Agreed. It actually dismisses human nature as some sort of right wing fantasy.
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johnno42000  28 Aug 17 4.34pm |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
Would that be the same Robert E Lee who (according to the Daily Telegraph this month).. "Documents show Lee was cruel to his slaves and encouraged his overseers to severely beat slaves captured after trying to escape. Historian Elizabeth Brown Pryor said in a 2008 American Heritage article that Lee was angry about the slaves' demands for freedom and "resorted to increasingly harsh measures to maintain control," breaking up most slave families. One slave at Arlington, Pryor noted, called Lee, "the worst man I ever see." Wouldn't his attitude have been the same as any slave owning person? Such as Washington and the Founding Fathers. They treated these people as a commodity so any trying to escape would have been treated harshly. Splitting up families would have been seen as a punishment and a way of increasing work from the slaves. They certainly wouldn't have wanted the slaves freed so any talk of such things would have been frowned upon and punished. I don't really see Lee as being any worse than any other person that owned slaves. The whole issue of keeping slaves is disgusting and is today rightly condemned. Not so back then.
'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more' |
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| Stirlingsays 28 Aug 17 4.43pm |
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Originally posted by johnno42000
I don't really see Lee as being any worse than any other person that owned slaves. The whole issue of keeping slaves is disgusting and is today rightly condemned. Not so back then. Yep, even Lincoln who enabled the war to happen in the first place viewed black people as inferior. All this simplistic binary judgement of the past is pure progressive zealotry.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 28 Aug 17 9.45pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yep, even Lincoln who enabled the war to happen in the first place viewed black people as inferior. All this simplistic binary judgement of the past is pure progressive zealotry. f*** the past. Nazis marching in 2017 but all you lot can muster is 'but look at who are protesting against them'
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| Stirlingsays 28 Aug 17 9.55pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
f*** the past. Nazis marching in 2017 but all you lot can muster is 'but look at who are protesting against them' You say 'f*** the past' and then use the word, 'Nazis'. The far right have always existed. Until 'identity' politics these groups were going down in numbers...hell they are still tiny. They can march if they are peaceful. Just as far left organisations can if they follow the same principles...and plenty of the far left want the destruction of capitalism and society's structures and use street violence as well...as well as the silencing of their opponents often again using violence....plenty of us find that offensive too. If any of these groups break the law then that's what the Police are paid to deal with. No one's moaning about people protesting the far right. Nothing wrong with that. Protest is fine. However, there is plenty of hysteria going on that amounts to lying. That recent tiny Bosten 'free speech' rally being a case in point. It had...what fifty people...and was in response to Google's recent probably illegal firing of one of its engineers. The rally actually had no far right speakers at it, having cancelled the one far right speaker who was attending after the recent death....But we get thousands of protesters turn up with 'nazi' banners and chanting stuff that had nothing to do with the rally...and of course antifa were there and who ended up fighting with Police and would have probably attacked the rally if they had gotten by the Police......Yet the media protray these events like the rally was 'extreme' and the protesters essentially doing something noble....well, they would have been if people were actually going to a 'nazi' rally......People are hysteric and being lied too. Nick, heightening these confrontations will only lead to increased security laws. At the end of the day the majority will always back the establishment over idiots breaking show windows and hitting people in the streets.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| legaleagle 28 Aug 17 10.45pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Yep. Keeping on arguing about statues and historical figures is so much easier than dealing with the real issues in the Black community. Yup,the real issues like the pervasive racism that remains in a number of quarters of the USA..
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