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Lyons550 Shirley 20 Oct 17 3.49pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Because there are many many people who aren't that confident in team May. Some good news might help allay any fears they have. So...in summary...you dont NEED to know...as it wont make ANY difference The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 20 Oct 17 3.49pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Because there are many many people who aren't that confident in team May. Some good news might help allay any fears they have.

So...in summary...you dont NEED to know...as it wont make ANY difference

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Stirlingsays 20 Oct 17 3.52pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Not necessarily, a lot of nationalist politics is unreasoned and absurd bollocks and oratory used to deflect away from real issues in the UK as absurdly unpragmatic - politics of all kinds, left right, up or down, that's only rationality is based in idealism is asking for trouble. Nationalism is ok, like anything else, when its basis is in reasoned argument. Nope, that is your value judgement upon nationalism. I only agree with your description as a nationalism that's out of control. You can't accurately say you are anti-nationalism but for the nation of Britain. It goes against the definition. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

20 Oct 17 3.52pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Not necessarily, a lot of nationalist politics is unreasoned and absurd bollocks and oratory used to deflect away from real issues in the UK as absurdly unpragmatic - politics of all kinds, left right, up or down, that's only rationality is based in idealism is asking for trouble.

Nationalism is ok, like anything else, when its basis is in reasoned argument.

Nope, that is your value judgement upon nationalism. I only agree with your description as a nationalism that's out of control.

You can't accurately say you are anti-nationalism but for the nation of Britain. It goes against the definition.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 20 Oct 17 4.01pm
Originally posted by nickgusset What about patriotism. I could say you are unpatriotic because you support the s*** show that is Brexit. It will cost our wonderful country dearly. You are deliberately making our country worse. I don't know how you sleep at night. Oh you don't, you often post at 3am. #knockabout Edited by nickgusset (20 Oct 2017 3.34pm) I haven't really been sleeping much for months....I couldn't tell you why....just don't need much anymore. A person can definitely be a remainer and a patriot in my eyes....never something I've said or thought. But you can't be pro the EU position and a patriot. Once that leave vote came through a patriot wants the best UK deal they can get. After that, perhaps they want another referendum....but that's something different. A person who wants a bad deal for the UK so that it eventually wants to rejoin the EU because of dependency isn't a patriot....not on those terms. There are other arguments for the EU where a person can say they are a patriot.....but with the increasing centralization and control freaky....I have to admit those arguments are looking stretched....but they exist.....staying in and pushing for change...etc etc. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Oct 2017 4.03pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

20 Oct 17 4.01pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

What about patriotism. I could say you are unpatriotic because you support the s*** show that is Brexit. It will cost our wonderful country dearly. You are deliberately making our country worse.
I don't know how you sleep at night. Oh you don't, you often post at 3am.

#knockabout

Edited by nickgusset (20 Oct 2017 3.34pm)

I haven't really been sleeping much for months....I couldn't tell you why....just don't need much anymore.

A person can definitely be a remainer and a patriot in my eyes....never something I've said or thought.

But you can't be pro the EU position and a patriot. Once that leave vote came through a patriot wants the best UK deal they can get. After that, perhaps they want another referendum....but that's something different.

A person who wants a bad deal for the UK so that it eventually wants to rejoin the EU because of dependency isn't a patriot....not on those terms.

There are other arguments for the EU where a person can say they are a patriot.....but with the increasing centralization and control freaky....I have to admit those arguments are looking stretched....but they exist.....staying in and pushing for change...etc etc.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Oct 2017 4.03pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Rudi Hedman Caterham 20 Oct 17 4.04pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle What do you mean by that? You obviously understand when a woman says she doesn't want something but does and vice versa then. Steeleye supports us paying our way and following their demands but if or when we do we're weak. COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 20 Oct 17 4.04pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

What do you mean by that?

You obviously understand when a woman says she doesn't want something but does and vice versa then.

Steeleye supports us paying our way and following their demands but if or when we do we're weak.

COYP

steeleye20 Croydon 20 Oct 17 4.06pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman You obviously understand when a woman says she doesn't want something but does and vice versa then. Steeleye supports us paying our way and following their demands but if or when we do we're weak. I don't support leaving or paying anything.

steeleye20

Croydon 20 Oct 17 4.06pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

You obviously understand when a woman says she doesn't want something but does and vice versa then.

Steeleye supports us paying our way and following their demands but if or when we do we're weak.

I don't support leaving or paying anything.

Lyons550 Shirley 20 Oct 17 4.07pm
Even Tusk admits things aren't as bad as being portrayed now... "Reports of deadlock over Brexit negotiations may have been exaggerated, European Council President Donald Tusk has said after a Brussels summit. Progress was "not sufficient" to begin trade talks with the UK now but that "doesn't mean there is no progress at all", he said" The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 20 Oct 17 4.07pm

Even Tusk admits things aren't as bad as being portrayed now...

"Reports of deadlock over Brexit negotiations may have been exaggerated, European Council President Donald Tusk has said after a Brussels summit.
Progress was "not sufficient" to begin trade talks with the UK now but that "doesn't mean there is no progress at all", he said"

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Rudi Hedman Caterham 20 Oct 17 4.09pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 I don't support leaving or paying anything. You don't support paying anything, even though we have to to get negotiations moving and done? Can you explain how that'll work? COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 20 Oct 17 4.09pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I don't support leaving or paying anything.

You don't support paying anything, even though we have to to get negotiations moving and done? Can you explain how that'll work?

COYP

Lyons550 Shirley 20 Oct 17 4.09pm
It would also seem that it's not just the British side that seem to be at odds with one another... "The EU's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, described the talks as deadlocked earlier this month. Mr Tusk said he was not at odds with Mr Barnier, but his own role was to be a "positive motivator for the next five or six weeks". He said he felt there was "goodwill" on both sides "and this is why I, maybe, in my rhetoric, I'm, maybe, a little bit more optimistic than Michel Barnier, but we are also in a different role"." The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 20 Oct 17 4.09pm

It would also seem that it's not just the British side that seem to be at odds with one another...

"The EU's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, described the talks as deadlocked earlier this month.
Mr Tusk said he was not at odds with Mr Barnier, but his own role was to be a "positive motivator for the next five or six weeks".
He said he felt there was "goodwill" on both sides "and this is why I, maybe, in my rhetoric, I'm, maybe, a little bit more optimistic than Michel Barnier, but we are also in a different role"."

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Stirlingsays 20 Oct 17 4.12pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 I don't support leaving or paying anything. Shame that, because we are leaving. Perhaps you should stick your EU t-shirt on and have a good cry. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Oct 2017 4.12pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

20 Oct 17 4.12pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I don't support leaving or paying anything.

Shame that, because we are leaving.

Perhaps you should stick your EU t-shirt on and have a good cry.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Oct 2017 4.12pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

steeleye20 Croydon 20 Oct 17 4.15pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman You don't support paying anything, even though we have to to get negotiations moving and done? Can you explain how that'll work? The UK should not leave at all it will be disasterous. The UK does not have to continue it can continue membership with the UK veto and business as usual. You would pay 50 billions to sit down and talk with existing partners how ridiculous.

steeleye20

Croydon 20 Oct 17 4.15pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

You don't support paying anything, even though we have to to get negotiations moving and done? Can you explain how that'll work?

The UK should not leave at all it will be disasterous.

The UK does not have to continue it can continue membership with the UK veto and business as usual.

You would pay 50 billions to sit down and talk with existing partners how ridiculous.

Kermit8 Hevon 20 Oct 17 4.16pm
I like the idea that British civilians haven't had to have been conscripted to go off and fight any wars in Europe for the last 72 years. I also like it that us British have much cleaner rivers and seas now thanks to EU directives. It's great too that British people can travel freely around most of Europe without much hassle. And it's effin' wonderful that British people get roughly £4 or £5 back in cheaper food bills, etc, for every £1 they put into the EU coffers because of lower costs involved by being a member. Then there are the three million British jobs themselves connected to that EU trade. It's fantastic that so many working British people benefit. Here's to Great Britain! And thanks to Europe for helping with all the above. Apologies for the ungrateful gainsayers here. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 20 Oct 17 4.16pm

I like the idea that British civilians haven't had to have been conscripted to go off and fight any wars in Europe for the last 72 years.

I also like it that us British have much cleaner rivers and seas now thanks to EU directives. It's great too that British people can travel freely around most of Europe without much hassle.

And it's effin' wonderful that British people get roughly £4 or £5 back in cheaper food bills, etc, for every £1 they put into the EU coffers because of lower costs involved by being a member.

Then there are the three million British jobs themselves connected to that EU trade. It's fantastic that so many working British people benefit.

Here's to Great Britain!

And thanks to Europe for helping with all the above.

Apologies for the ungrateful gainsayers here.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

Lyons550 Shirley 20 Oct 17 4.16pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The UK should not leave at all it will be disasterous. The UK does not have to continue it can continue membership with the UK veto and business as usual. You would pay 50 billions to sit down and talk with existing partners how ridiculous. Perhaps you should list what 'disastrous' means and then maybe we could have a little wager on whether it would be or not.... The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 20 Oct 17 4.16pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The UK should not leave at all it will be disasterous.

The UK does not have to continue it can continue membership with the UK veto and business as usual.

You would pay 50 billions to sit down and talk with existing partners how ridiculous.

Perhaps you should list what 'disastrous' means and then maybe we could have a little wager on whether it would be or not....

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 20 Oct 17 4.18pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 I like the idea that British civilians haven't had to have been conscripted to go off and fight any wars in Europe for the last 72 years. I also like it that us British have much cleaner rivers and seas now thanks to EU directives. It's great too that British people can travel freely around most of Europe without much hassle. And it's effin' wonderful that British people get roughly £4 or £5 back in cheaper food bills, etc, for every £1 they put into the EU coffers because of lower costs involved by being a member. Then there are the three million British jobs themselves connected to that EU trade. It's fantastic that so many working British people benefit. Here's to Great Britain! And thanks to Europe for helping with all the above. Apologies for the ungrateful gainsayers here. Have you been on the bottle this lunchtime? Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 20 Oct 17 4.18pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

I like the idea that British civilians haven't had to have been conscripted to go off and fight any wars in Europe for the last 72 years.

I also like it that us British have much cleaner rivers and seas now thanks to EU directives. It's great too that British people can travel freely around most of Europe without much hassle.

And it's effin' wonderful that British people get roughly £4 or £5 back in cheaper food bills, etc, for every £1 they put into the EU coffers because of lower costs involved by being a member.

Then there are the three million British jobs themselves connected to that EU trade. It's fantastic that so many working British people benefit.

Here's to Great Britain!

And thanks to Europe for helping with all the above.

Apologies for the ungrateful gainsayers here.

Have you been on the bottle this lunchtime?

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

Kermit8 Hevon 20 Oct 17 4.22pm
Originally posted by susmik Have you been on the bottle this lunchtime? Sober as a muslim judge Here's to GB!! And here's to Europe!! Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 20 Oct 17 4.22pm

Originally posted by susmik

Have you been on the bottle this lunchtime?

Sober as a muslim judge

Here's to GB!! And here's to Europe!!

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

Stirlingsays 20 Oct 17 4.29pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Sober as a muslim judge Here's to GB!! And here's to Europe!! We are apart of Europe...we are leaving the EU. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

20 Oct 17 4.29pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Sober as a muslim judge

Here's to GB!! And here's to Europe!!

We are apart of Europe...we are leaving the EU.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 20 Oct 17 4.29pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Anti-nationalist is by implication anti-British as it is anti the idea of nationhood. It's not rocket science. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Oct 2017 3.26pm) Looks like our definitions of nationalism are quite different. I don't have to subscribe to jingoist, flag-waving rhetoric to be a proud South Londoner and Englishman. Go to a few Jack Of The Green events (for example) to see people being proud of their English traditions. Latter-day NF wannabees, for example, are nationalists I'm happy to be anti. Does that make me anti my country? Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 20 Oct 17 4.29pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Anti-nationalist is by implication anti-British as it is anti the idea of nationhood. It's not rocket science.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Oct 2017 3.26pm)

Looks like our definitions of nationalism are quite different. I don't have to subscribe to jingoist, flag-waving rhetoric to be a proud South Londoner and Englishman. Go to a few Jack Of The Green events (for example) to see people being proud of their English traditions.

Latter-day NF wannabees, for example, are nationalists I'm happy to be anti. Does that make me anti my country?

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

Lyons550 Shirley 20 Oct 17 4.36pm
Cleary one swallow doesnt make a summer...but "Britain saw its smallest budget deficit for any September in the last 10 years, according to official figures. Last month's deficit stood at £5.902bn, down almost 11% compared with the same month last year, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said. With many economists having forecast a deficit of about £6.5bn, the news will be a boost for Chancellor Philip Hammond ahead of next month's Budget. The deficit for August was also revised down by about £1bn to £4.716bn September's figures marked the third straight month in which UK public finances were better than analysts had forecast." [Link] The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 20 Oct 17 4.36pm

Cleary one swallow doesnt make a summer...but

"Britain saw its smallest budget deficit for any September in the last 10 years, according to official figures.
Last month's deficit stood at £5.902bn, down almost 11% compared with the same month last year, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.
With many economists having forecast a deficit of about £6.5bn, the news will be a boost for Chancellor Philip Hammond ahead of next month's Budget.
The deficit for August was also revised down by about £1bn to £4.716bn
September's figures marked the third straight month in which UK public finances were better than analysts had forecast."

[Link]

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Stirlingsays 20 Oct 17 4.39pm
Originally posted by Mr_Gristle Looks like our definitions of nationalism are quite different. I don't have to subscribe to jingoist, flag-waving rhetoric to be a proud South Londoner and Englishman. Go to a few Jack Of The Green events (for example) to see people being proud of their English traditions. Latter-day NF wannabees, for example, are nationalists I'm happy to be anti. Does that make me anti my country? Well, the definitions are quite clear and out there. So if you wave the flag you're a jingoist? What are you defining as a jingoist exactly? Perhaps you have brought and sold the 'progressive' narratives on nationalism. I grew up with plenty of flag waving. Nothing wrong with it at all. If you aren't against the idea of nationhood than you aren't anti-nationalist.....You sound anti aggressive nationalism perhaps....which is fair enough. I don't know anyone sensible saying hooliganism is a good thing. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

20 Oct 17 4.39pm

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

Latter-day NF wannabees, for example, are nationalists I'm happy to be anti. Does that make me anti my country?

Well, the definitions are quite clear and out there.

So if you wave the flag you're a jingoist? What are you defining as a jingoist exactly?

Perhaps you have brought and sold the 'progressive' narratives on nationalism. I grew up with plenty of flag waving. Nothing wrong with it at all.

If you aren't against the idea of nationhood than you aren't anti-nationalist.....You sound anti aggressive nationalism perhaps....which is fair enough. I don't know anyone sensible saying hooliganism is a good thing.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 20 Oct 17 4.43pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 I like the idea that British civilians haven't had to have been conscripted to go off and fight any wars in Europe for the last 72 years. I also like it that us British have much cleaner rivers and seas now thanks to EU directives. It's great too that British people can travel freely around most of Europe without much hassle. And it's effin' wonderful that British people get roughly £4 or £5 back in cheaper food bills, etc, for every £1 they put into the EU coffers because of lower costs involved by being a member. Then there are the three million British jobs themselves connected to that EU trade. It's fantastic that so many working British people benefit. Here's to Great Britain! And thanks to Europe for helping with all the above. Apologies for the ungrateful gainsayers here. Kermy the patriot. Still wrong about most things but hey....it's a free country...at the moment anyway. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

20 Oct 17 4.43pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

I like the idea that British civilians haven't had to have been conscripted to go off and fight any wars in Europe for the last 72 years.

I also like it that us British have much cleaner rivers and seas now thanks to EU directives. It's great too that British people can travel freely around most of Europe without much hassle.

And it's effin' wonderful that British people get roughly £4 or £5 back in cheaper food bills, etc, for every £1 they put into the EU coffers because of lower costs involved by being a member.

Then there are the three million British jobs themselves connected to that EU trade. It's fantastic that so many working British people benefit.

Here's to Great Britain!

And thanks to Europe for helping with all the above.

Apologies for the ungrateful gainsayers here.

Kermy the patriot.

Still wrong about most things but hey....it's a free country...at the moment anyway.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 20 Oct 17 4.46pm
Originally posted by Stuk Absolute nonsense, there are more 3 times as many citizens from other EU countries in the UK, than UK citizens in other EU countries. And only one country out of the 27 has more Brits there than is reciprocated. Spain. The Good Friday agreement is nothing to do with the EU, and nothing in it will change. A total non-argument. How is it nonsense? As a proportion of British citizens more are living in the EU27 than the proportion of EU27 citizens living in the UK. It's a fact not an opinion. The GFA is guaranteed by an EU nation. I've not said anything will change, I defer to experts. I'm sure your expert legal opinion on it is all the UK and Irish governments need to satisfy themselves that future border arrangements will continue to uphold every element of that agreement.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 20 Oct 17 4.46pm

Originally posted by Stuk

Absolute nonsense, there are more 3 times as many citizens from other EU countries in the UK, than UK citizens in other EU countries. And only one country out of the 27 has more Brits there than is reciprocated. Spain.

The Good Friday agreement is nothing to do with the EU, and nothing in it will change. A total non-argument.

How is it nonsense? As a proportion of British citizens more are living in the EU27 than the proportion of EU27 citizens living in the UK.

It's a fact not an opinion.

The GFA is guaranteed by an EU nation. I've not said anything will change, I defer to experts. I'm sure your expert legal opinion on it is all the UK and Irish governments need to satisfy themselves that future border arrangements will continue to uphold every element of that agreement.

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