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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 02 Oct 17 10.02pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Interesting article about Australia and gun laws...

Or you can watch the Jim Jeffries (NSFW) explanation. [Link]

He freely admits to making up the stats for effect, but the sentiment is 100% accurate.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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.TUX. Flag 02 Oct 17 10.21pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Why are you so coy? Lets have a few guesses: 9/11 Zionists; 7/7 and Lee Rigby MI5; Moon Landings fake?

Not coy, i'm just aware that all may not be what it seems, WMD being a fairly recent, proven, example.

As for 9/11, if you want me to believe that some barely trained Muslims, mainly Saudi Arabians, delivered the greatest humiliation to a superpower since David slew Goliath by outsmarting all 17 US intelligence agencies and those of NATO and Israel, the National Security Council, the Transportation Safety Administration, Air Traffic Control, and Dick Cheney, hijacked four US airliners on one morning, brought down three World Trade Center skyscrapers, destroyed that part of the Pentagon where research was underway into the missing $2.3 Trillion, and caused the morons in Washington to blame Afghanistan instead of Saudi Arabia..........then no, i'm not having it.
Throw into the mix that the most gun-ho nation on the planet couldn't find at least one F-14(15?) to patrol the skies after the first tower was hit as well as not 1 person being held accountable for this absolute lack of security in the most gun-ho nation on the planet..........then i'm doubly dubious.

But i'm sure you'll prove me wrong.

 


Buy Litecoin.

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paperhat Flag croydon 02 Oct 17 10.24pm Send a Private Message to paperhat Add paperhat as a friend

Originally posted by pefwin

That's pretty sick, you have to be as psyhcotic as the gun man to think along those lines.

especially as everyone knows it was the North Koreans...

 


Clinton is Clinton. I have known him for a long time, I know his mother... Simon Jordan


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wordup Flag 02 Oct 17 11.32pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

I'm perfectly calm thanks. I just think nutcase conspiracy theorists are despicable.

TUX is definitely wrong on this even. It clearly and very obviously happened. And was horrific.

But you don't much seem to particularly like anyone my man, so I'm pretty sure that the assessment of TUX as despicable is off.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 03 Oct 17 4.45am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by .TUX.

Not coy, i'm just aware that all may not be what it seems, WMD being a fairly recent, proven, example.

As for 9/11, if you want me to believe that some barely trained Muslims, mainly Saudi Arabians, delivered the greatest humiliation to a superpower since David slew Goliath by outsmarting all 17 US intelligence agencies and those of NATO and Israel, the National Security Council, the Transportation Safety Administration, Air Traffic Control, and Dick Cheney, hijacked four US airliners on one morning, brought down three World Trade Center skyscrapers, destroyed that part of the Pentagon where research was underway into the missing .3 Trillion, and caused the morons in Washington to blame Afghanistan instead of Saudi Arabia..........then no, i'm not having it.
Throw into the mix that the most gun-ho nation on the planet couldn't find at least one F-14(15?) to patrol the skies after the first tower was hit as well as not 1 person being held accountable for this absolute lack of security in the most gun-ho nation on the planet..........then i'm doubly dubious.

But I'm sure you'll prove me wrong.

Everything you say about 9/11 is totally ridiculous. Basic logic defeats every argument for a conspiracy. It's why conspiracy theorists on this one are so ridiculed.

Anything you could bring up has an answer. If you wish for me to tackle any questions one at a time I will and I'm sure others would as well.

One of the calling cards of someone with logic issues is the tendency to believe in multiple big event conspiracy theories. Sure, some events require skepticism and there is nothing wrong with looking. While, after a lot of looking, I personally don't accept the Kennedy conspiracy theory....I still can understand why people would suspect and/or believe one.

But once you know someone believes in multiple ones that's not a particularly good sign.


Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Oct 2017 11.15am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Harry Beever Flag Newbury 03 Oct 17 7.12am Send a Private Message to Harry Beever Add Harry Beever as a friend

Originally posted by .TUX.

Not coy, i'm just aware that all may not be what it seems, WMD being a fairly recent, proven, example.

As for 9/11, if you want me to believe that some barely trained Muslims, mainly Saudi Arabians, delivered the greatest humiliation to a superpower since David slew Goliath by outsmarting all 17 US intelligence agencies and those of NATO and Israel, the National Security Council, the Transportation Safety Administration, Air Traffic Control, and Dick Cheney, hijacked four US airliners on one morning, brought down three World Trade Center skyscrapers, destroyed that part of the Pentagon where research was underway into the missing .3 Trillion, and caused the morons in Washington to blame Afghanistan instead of Saudi Arabia..........then no, i'm not having it.
Throw into the mix that the most gun-ho nation on the planet couldn't find at least one F-14(15?) to patrol the skies after the first tower was hit as well as not 1 person being held accountable for this absolute lack of security in the most gun-ho nation on the planet..........then i'm doubly dubious.

But i'm sure you'll prove me wrong.


3 World Trade Center skyscrapers? Where was the third? I think they manipulated the situation into an excuse to go into Afghanistan but that's as far fetched as my conspiracy theory goes.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 03 Oct 17 7.40am

Originally posted by .TUX.

Not coy, i'm just aware that all may not be what it seems, WMD being a fairly recent, proven, example.

As for 9/11, if you want me to believe that some barely trained Muslims, mainly Saudi Arabians, delivered the greatest humiliation to a superpower since David slew Goliath by outsmarting all 17 US intelligence agencies and those of NATO and Israel, the National Security Council, the Transportation Safety Administration, Air Traffic Control, and Dick Cheney, hijacked four US airliners on one morning, brought down three World Trade Center skyscrapers, destroyed that part of the Pentagon where research was underway into the missing .3 Trillion, and caused the morons in Washington to blame Afghanistan instead of Saudi Arabia..........then no, i'm not having it.
Throw into the mix that the most gun-ho nation on the planet couldn't find at least one F-14(15?) to patrol the skies after the first tower was hit as well as not 1 person being held accountable for this absolute lack of security in the most gun-ho nation on the planet..........then i'm doubly dubious.

But i'm sure you'll prove me wrong.

Who did it and why then?

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 03 Oct 17 7.42am

Originally posted by wordup

TUX is definitely wrong on this even. It clearly and very obviously happened. And was horrific.

But you don't much seem to particularly like anyone my man, so I'm pretty sure that the assessment of TUX as despicable is off.

I have to particularly like people do I, my man?

I called nutjob conspiracy theorists despicable because that is what they are. I did not call TUX this -
he can explain his position if he wants.


Edited by hedgehog50 (03 Oct 2017 8.00am)

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Stuk Flag Top half 03 Oct 17 11.02am Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by Harry Beever


3 World Trade Center skyscrapers? Where was the third? I think they manipulated the situation into an excuse to go into Afghanistan but that's as far fetched as my conspiracy theory goes.

7WTC fell as a result of 1 & 2. It was no twin tower but it was still about 50 stories high.

 


Optimistic as ever

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Stirlingsays Flag 03 Oct 17 11.12am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Harry Beever


3 World Trade Center skyscrapers? Where was the third? I think they manipulated the situation into an excuse to go into Afghanistan but that's as far fetched as my conspiracy theory goes.

Why would they need to manipulate the situation to do that? Bin Laden was already wanted for terrorist crimes.

Who would have stopped them exactly?

Also, what benefit is in taking over a country such as Afghanistan? Even then the country would have clearly been seen as a liability.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 03 Oct 17 11.19am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Trump's views before he got into politics.

'It’s often argued that the American murder rate is high because guns are more available here than in other countries. After a tragedy like the massacre at Columbine High School, anyone could feel that it is too easy for Americans to get their hands on weapons. But nobody has a good solution. This is another issue where you see the extremes of the two existing major parties. Democrats want to confiscate all guns, which is a dumb idea because only the law-abiding citizens would turn in their guns and the bad guys would be the only ones left armed. The Republicans walk the NRA line and refuse even limited restrictions. I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I also support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within seventy-two hours if a potential gun owner has a record'


Very reasonable stuff. Interesting the US does not have a national register of firearms database, as the NRA and republicans have blocked this at every turn - meaning that the only national register is a manual document, to which sales of firearms have to be collated from sales reports (and guns sales at Gunshows are both exempt from the notice period time and addition to this s**ty register system).

Of course its worth noting that the reason why so many guns are in criminal circulation, is because of the legal gun system (where in guns get stolen, 'stolen' or 'lost' without any real accountability) and sold onto the black market.

Hardly any criminal gangs are smuggling weapons into the US, but plenty are smuggling weapons out (Mexico gangs traffic drugs over the border, and firearms back).

But the US problem with Guns isn't about good guys and bad guys, as you're more likely to be killed with a legally owned firearm, or one that was legally purchased and 'stolen/lost'.

So the argument of 'only the bad guys will have guns' is only kind of true - the reason that the 'other guy' has a gun, is because the system is so absurdly easy to move guns from the legal to illegal markets that its led to a proliferation of firearms.

The figures get obfuscated somewhat, because often a gun used illegally, is illegally held (someone with a criminal record who bought it at a gun show, or purchased off the black market, but originally purchased legally, or simply used illegally but owned legally).

Its actually very rare, especially so in spree shootings, for the guns to be purchased illegally.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 03 Oct 17 11.41am

Originally posted by .TUX.

Not coy, i'm just aware that all may not be what it seems, WMD being a fairly recent, proven, example.

As for 9/11, if you want me to believe that some barely trained Muslims, mainly Saudi Arabians, delivered the greatest humiliation to a superpower since David slew Goliath by outsmarting all 17 US intelligence agencies and those of NATO and Israel, the National Security Council, the Transportation Safety Administration, Air Traffic Control, and Dick Cheney, hijacked four US airliners on one morning, brought down three World Trade Center skyscrapers, destroyed that part of the Pentagon where research was underway into the missing .3 Trillion, and caused the morons in Washington to blame Afghanistan instead of Saudi Arabia..........then no, i'm not having it.
Throw into the mix that the most gun-ho nation on the planet couldn't find at least one F-14(15?) to patrol the skies after the first tower was hit as well as not 1 person being held accountable for this absolute lack of security in the most gun-ho nation on the planet..........then i'm doubly dubious.

But i'm sure you'll prove me wrong.

In terms of humiliation, its not really that much of a complex idea. Hijacking planes has been a terrorist mainstay for a long time. Send multiple teams to hijack plans at roughly the same time, and crash them into buildings at different locations.

The US wasn't prepared for this. Remember at the time the US probably wasn't aware that the planes had been hijacked until they were crashing into the targets. Al-Qaeda were surprised at how well it went off - the reason they selected four different targets (Twin Towers 1, 2, Pentagon and Camp David/White House) was it seems because they didn't expect to get all of the planes, or for all of the teams to escape detection long enough.

In truth, the time between confirming the planes were hijacked and being used as a weapon, were minimal. Certainly, not enough time to get fighters scrambled into unplanned mission objectives. Also if they'd switched off the transponders - not enough time to track down the planes (let alone rearm, and reschedule Fighter aircraft, get them fuelled and airborne, and deployed into the correct areas).

Those things require about 100 hours of maintenance for every hour they spend in the air. Most of those on standby would likely be ready for intercepting missiles based on soviet era wargames.

The aftermath exposed just how poor US airport security and aircraft security was despite a history of terrorist hijackings and bombings.

Its a clever, but simple plan, almost elegant in its simplicity

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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