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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 dannyboy1978  02 Nov 18 12.16pm |
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Our government is so s***
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Pussay Patrol  02 Nov 18 1.06pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Agreed. I keep asking this question. What will the EU look like if we remain in say 5-10 years. Are we going to be forced to join the euro? does our rebate go? will we be forced into an EU defence force? Will the EU have final say on our budget and fiscal policy? (just ask Italy)will we be forced into the Schengen agreement? I don't hear any of that from the Remainers yet all of this is on the table and its not project fear just look at the EU website. The status quo is not an option well I voted for change outside of the EU. Maybe in some alternate reality the EU will get it's act together and become a democratic confederation of independent nations until then I want nothing to do with it. Oh as for all those who are taking out Irish or German citizenship don't let the door hit your bum, on the way out.
This is where you've swallowed the tabloid line, the notion that we are forced into things against our will, we are part of a Union and agree on policy collectively. Sometimes they agree on policy that isn't popular and people disagree with but that's normal politics even in the UK when they bring in Austerity, cuts in services or foreign aid. And we can decide if we want to be part of the Euro, Schengen or not, we have vetos, but I doubt you'd get a vote on it if they did Or did they say after Brexit there'd be referendums on every single government policy ?
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 02 Nov 18 1.32pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
This is where you've swallowed the tabloid line, the notion that we are forced into things against our will, we are part of a Union and agree on policy collectively. Sometimes they agree on policy that isn't popular and people disagree with but that's normal politics even in the UK when they bring in Austerity, cuts in services or foreign aid. And we can decide if we want to be part of the Euro, Schengen or not, we have vetos, but I doubt you'd get a vote on it if they did Or did they say after Brexit there'd be referendums on every single government policy ? One of the items under consideration is majority voting which would mean the end of the veto.
One more point |
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| Pussay Patrol 02 Nov 18 1.34pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
Nationalism?? Now you've lost me. We do not have anarchy, as in the actual definition! You really need to understand the correct meanings. You don't get my point. Big government is bad – so why would I want more? (as in the EU). If a real conservative became leader then I would vote of for them and expect them to cut back the government and taxes. It's really not hard to understand. It's the idea that somehow our way of life, our courts, laws, political system is somehow superior despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary and the scepticism towards anything foreign. That is the real core of the debate, that's why immigration always strikes a chord
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 02 Nov 18 1.59pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
It's the idea that somehow our way of life, our courts, laws, political system is somehow superior despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary and the scepticism towards anything foreign. That is the real core of the debate, that's why immigration always strikes a chord So what about the hundreds of countries that are outside of the EU? Do they fit that category also? I've explained... it's about less government. Do you not get it? You obviously have some weird issues. I mean you have removed the England flag from your profile. Why can't you accept that you live in England?
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| Stirlingsays 02 Nov 18 2.00pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
One of the items under consideration is majority voting which would mean the end of the veto. Yep....and as usual not bought up by an EU supporter. Just like various numbers of them lied before all of the previous EU agreements which continually changed the original relationship from the original 70s common market....none of which were put to the people. Totally disingenuous.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Pussay Patrol 02 Nov 18 2.04pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yep....and as usual not bought up by an EU supporter. Just like various numbers of them lied before all of the previous EU agreements which continually changed the original relationship from the original 70s common market....none of which were put to the people. Totally disingenuous. What in this country is put to the people? (Other than Brexit?)
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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| Stirlingsays 02 Nov 18 2.10pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
What in this country is put to the people? (Other than Brexit?) The seventies common market vote was. And quite frankly several of the latter treaties should have been. The elections that happen every five years are not a vote on any one issue and so can't be used as any sort of justification on any one policy......especially one that's only separated by a few percent.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Pussay Patrol 02 Nov 18 2.15pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'm a nationalist.....stop lying by using words like 'superiority' and connecting it to nationalism. It's a lazy left wing stereotype. It's about allegiance.....All societies and groups contain people of various abilities, IQs and abilities.....All of them. The elected state and institutions of England....which in effect is the taxpayer, has an allegiance to all those who have an allegiance to them. No one else. That's what defines a nation or should do.....and the concept of nations is one of the concepts that the far left try to tear down. or perhaps breaking down barriers and walls rather than build them between people? Like Trump's wall?
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 02 Nov 18 2.21pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
or perhaps breaking down barriers and walls rather than build them between people? Like Trump's wall? Without a border, you are not a country. Do you think there should be no borders for any country in the world?
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 Hrolf The Ganger 02 Nov 18 2.45pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
or perhaps breaking down barriers and walls rather than build them between people? Like Trump's wall? Very very naive. Tribalism is part of human behaviour. Nations are an extension of that. Division would always emerge unless it could be somehow suppressed by rule. Fancy a world where everyone is exactly the same or else?
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| Stirlingsays 02 Nov 18 2.50pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
or perhaps breaking down barriers and walls rather than build them between people? Like Trump's wall? Without enforced borders you can't have nations for very long......free passage of people dilutes allegiance to the host nation. Trump's wall would simply provide more effective enforcement of a border.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Pussay Patrol 02 Nov 18 3.10pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Very very naive. Tribalism is part of human behaviour. Nations are an extension of that. Division would always emerge unless it could be somehow suppressed by rule. Fancy a world where everyone is exactly the same or else?
I'm speaking more metaphorically, the notion of walls between people. Identify those who are different to you, paint them as the enemy and tap into people's sense of nationalism that you'll build a wall and be on their side of it. It got Trump elected and how alot of Brexiters view our relationship with the EU
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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| Stirlingsays 02 Nov 18 3.26pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
I'm speaking more metaphorically, the notion of walls between people. Identify those who are different to you, paint them as the enemy and tap into people's sense of nationalism that you'll build a wall and be on their side of it. It got Trump elected and how alot of Brexiters view our relationship with the EU
For example, I view Victor Orban as both a foreigner and a hero. He is different to me with different allegiances and he isn't meant to live here.....however he isn't my enemy and nor are the European states. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Nov 2018 3.26pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 02 Nov 18 3.35pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
For example, I view Victor Orban as both a foreigner and a hero. He is different to me with different allegiances and he isn't meant to live here.....however he isn't my enemy and nor are the European states. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Nov 2018 3.26pm) That's very reassuring for the European states concerned.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 02 Nov 18 4.02pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
I'm speaking more metaphorically, the notion of walls between people. Identify those who are different to you, paint them as the enemy and tap into people's sense of nationalism that you'll build a wall and be on their side of it. It got Trump elected and how alot of Brexiters view our relationship with the EU So Trump's wall is metaphorical now? Bottom line is that I like what Britain is or at least I did. It is the product of many years of endeavour to achieve a lifestyle and conditions that are free from most of the evils of the past.
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| Stirlingsays 02 Nov 18 4.04pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
That's very reassuring for the European states concerned.
Besides Steely you are an authoritarian.....so perhaps you being critical of dictators of the past is a tad....how shall we say...selective. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Nov 2018 4.06pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 02 Nov 18 4.10pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Besides Steely you are an authoritarian.....so perhaps you being critical of dictators of the past is a tad....how shall we say...selective. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Nov 2018 4.06pm) Of course, it would be fine to be effectively dictated to by other nations under the auspices of the EU but we can't be allowed to favour our own. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (02 Nov 2018 4.11pm)
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