Sorry for continuing the off-topic but living in a country where when you have a medical issue you have to weigh the costs and if and when you can afford to get treatment does remind you how fortunate the UK is for having a free health system.

No-one advocates for the "sacking of tens of thousands of staff"!!!!

To suggest anyone would advocate such an idea is mind blowingly inept.

What is advocated is that those who can be vaccinated, should be vaccinated. The NHS is running endless information and reassurance campaigns to support the reluctant, so those who steadfastly and selfishly refuse will need to be redeployed to positions where they don't face the vulnerable.

As I have posted elsewhere the NHS now appears to face a dilemma. A choice between two unacceptable situations which has to be made. Lose staff, or send the wrong message over vaccination.

I would like to think that this has been a predetermined plan to try to increase the pressure on the reluctant, and there was never an intention to actually lose too many, but I certainly don't advocate sacking anyone.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

You will always get this kind of thing where-ever a huge bureaucracy exists. In your various posts you give the impression that you think a more "business" like approach would solve things. Perhaps you are unaware of just how much private enterprise is already involved in the NHS. Many services are provided on a commercial basis, under contract. This has been the trend for many years. Trying to balance the competing needs of providing the health service we all need in as efficient a way as possible cannot be easy. The NHS employs some highly experienced business managers, alongside its senior medical staff, to do just that so whilst throwing mud is an easy sport it isn't really that simple, because what you advocate already exists.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

What a surprise.

There are always a few outliers with different opinions. They exist in most situations. Nothing new there. Data can be interpreted in a variety of ways. Lies, damn lies and statistics! It's though the majority view which prevails, after listening to all.

That a right wing broadcaster promotes such an outlier, whilst others don't, is also hardly new.

Nothing to see here, beyond the reinforcing of prejudice.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

?

These aren't 'two ways to interpret things' data. The CDC data for example covers tens of millions of people.

Perhaps you have become so entrenched into your position that you just can't change it.

Here is Dr John Campbell on the same data results.

[Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

If I was health secretary this is where I would start. Agency nurses cost the NHS a fortune as they are better paid and then the agency also gets its slice. This encourages NHS staff to defect. I would cap what the agencies are paid at close to NHS pay scales so hopefully agency staff would realise there is no benefit and rejoin the NHS.

The second thing I would do is to force consultants and GPS to work a minimum number of hours for the NHS per week. Too many of them use it to subsidise their private work. This would not be popular but I think if explained to the public they would support.

What the minimum hours would be is up for negotiation but these days most GPs only work a 3 day week, that is not acceptable.

If you can fix those 2 things I suspect that would make a huge difference to waiting times.

One more point

You just proved everything I said.

Data doesn't change your opinion....this data involves millions of people. The data showed no improvement in outcomes from combining vaccines with natural infection. Both vaccines and natural infection had strong results against covid.

As for you trying to belittle Campbell, where is the evidence that any of his analysis is incorrect?

To quote from his wiki page, 'In August 2020, UNICEF's regional office for Europe and Central Asia cited Campbell's Youtube channel as an excellent example of how experts might engage with social media to combat misinformation'.

You are outputting misinformation and encouraging people to demonise an out group you don't like.....when there is no evidence to back up your claims.

Also, if you are trying to claim that Jimmy Dore is an 'antivaxxer' then that is misinformation as the guy was vaccinated. Criticising aspects around mandates and covid policy doesn't not make someone an 'antivaxxer'.

Those that claim that are liars.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jan 2022 4.11pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Has it been established why these NHS workers are so reluctant to be vaccinated? Seems ironic that the rest of us are being told we have to get jabbed to protect the NHS while 126,000 of their own staff are prepared to risk losing their job over it.

Can you confirm that for every hospital? I hope you are right. The NHS used to have Nursebank which allowed staff particularly with children to manage their hours which I am fine with. This seems to indicate that agency nurses are being over used.

[Link]

One more point

I most certainly didn't prove anything that was said. It's impossible for anyone to do that, as it's merely an opinion. Opinions on how any data set is to be interpreted will always vary, no matter how often anyone says they don't. Especially when we are witnessing so many variants of the virus. You simply cannot draw conclusions. Trying to pass off the idea that natural infection is the equivalent of a controlled series of vaccinations is beyond irresponsible. It's dangerous. We need to listen to the consensus view of experts. Not just to the fringes.

I am not belittling Campbell. I am putting what he does into context. He isn't an expert. He is a YouTuber. No doubt a good one, popular with people looking for confirmation of their biases. Whether his analysis is correct, or not, is always going to be a matter of opinion, for which proof is not available.

I read the UNICEF comment too on Wiki. It's true. He is a good communicator. It doesn't mean what he communicates is true. It's notable though that comment was selected, and not some of the others which were not quite so positive.

Why on earth anyone would think I am "outputting misinformation" about the anti-vaxxers beats me. All I have ever said is 100% true, and it's supported by loads of evidence, provided by those who really understand this. They have demonised themselves. No help needed from me. All I have done is suggest how the rest of us should treat them, to encourage them back into the decency fold. Most are just the victims of misinformation and doubt. They aren't bad people. Some are though just selfish pr*cks.

Jimmy Dore may well have been vaccinated, but that doesn't appear to stop him promoting vaccine scepticism and spreading lies. He is monetising people's fear just as Alex Jones monetises people's anger. That in my book makes him an anti-vaxxer. Anyone who either refuses to be vaccinated, or casts doubt on their efficacy fits the description.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.