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 Mapletree  Croydon 05 Dec 21 8.29pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
So you think your study is better than Israel's. I wonder who funded the ZOE COVID study.....let's have a look. 'ZOE COVID Study is supported by a grant from the UK Government Department of Health and Social Care, and endorsed by NHS Wales and NHS Scotland. All data is analysed by a joint team from ZOE and King's College London.' King's college London.....Mmmmm....how independent. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2021 7.10pm) Oh do grow up.
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| Stirlingsays 05 Dec 21 8.38pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Oh do grow up. Such a convincing response.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Dec 21 8.58pm |
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For the avoidance of doubt I don’t have a study. I quoted a very recent UK study which I have no reason to doubt. I have also looked at the Israeli study. It is not a study of those infected but of those that went on to recover. Zoe appears to have been a similar study with a different outcome. It is an independent organisation. The Israeli study shows the benefits of natural immunity, but “doesn’t take into account what this virus does to the body to get to that point,” says Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington, Seattle. It does not consider immunity to any other strain of Covid than the historical strains in Israel when the data was collected. It doesn’t actually say natural immunity is 27 times better than two doses of Pfizer, it states 6 to 13 times. The 27 was an outlier. The numbers for infections and other events analyzed for the comparisons were “small.” For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person study was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the same analysis was based on just 238 infections in the vaccinated population, less than 1.5% of the more than 16,000 people, versus 19 reinfections among a similar number of people who once had SARS-CoV-2. It also says that if you live to survive Covid then going on to be vaccinated by an mRNA vaccine bestows much stronger immunity, Zoe places figures against this ‘ideal scenario’. It would be interesting to see an experimental study, rather than based on historic self reporting, between natural immunity and those that have had a booster. Note that natural immunity wanes after 9 to 12 months. As we know the vaccinations are being repeated every 6 months currently. Anyone that wishes to brave a possible cytokine storm or long Covid to gain natural immunity is braver than I. Let’s hope immunity to Delta also gives some immunity to Omicron, which inevitably will be with us all very soon.
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| Stirlingsays 05 Dec 21 10.07pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
For the avoidance of doubt I don’t have a study. I quoted a very recent UK study which I have no reason to doubt. I have also looked at the Israeli study. It is not a study of those infected but of those that went on to recover. Zoe appears to have been a similar study with a different outcome. It is an independent organisation. The Israeli study shows the benefits of natural immunity, but “doesn’t take into account what this virus does to the body to get to that point,” says Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington, Seattle. It does not consider immunity to any other strain of Covid than the historical strains in Israel when the data was collected. It doesn’t actually say natural immunity is 27 times better than two doses of Pfizer, it states 6 to 13 times. The 27 was an outlier. The numbers for infections and other events analyzed for the comparisons were “small.” For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person study was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the same analysis was based on just 238 infections in the vaccinated population, less than 1.5% of the more than 16,000 people, versus 19 reinfections among a similar number of people who once had SARS-CoV-2. It also says that if you live to survive Covid then going on to be vaccinated by an mRNA vaccine bestows much stronger immunity, Zoe places figures against this ‘ideal scenario’. It would be interesting to see an experimental study, rather than based on historic self reporting, between natural immunity and those that have had a booster. Note that natural immunity wanes after 9 to 12 months. As we know the vaccinations are being repeated every 6 months currently. Anyone that wishes to brave a possible cytokine storm or long Covid to gain natural immunity is braver than I. Let’s hope immunity to Delta also gives some immunity to Omicron, which inevitably will be with us all very soon. 'Note that natural immunity wanes after 9 to 12 months.'......While I don't know how that can be said with any certainty I suspect that reinfection strength is also waning. In fact for the healthy catching a weak strain is rarely the worse outcome.....and I would hope that the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated anyway.....something I have never argued against. If people want to be 'braver' than you Maple, that should be their choice....though from you perhaps that's rather paradoxical as you have been quite happy to label them cowards previously....However, that isn't the point, which should be is the protection of free choice without persecution.....and I'm doubtful that this principle is safe from the likes of you. Also, it is important that the risk of death or indeed severe illness isn't over stressed when referring to the young and healthy.....I often find that the risks to them are conflated with that of the vulnerable groups. While I just can't be bothered to investigate any possible flaws within the ZOE study I think your quotes here can be compared to your original quotes of dismissal. But again....this interview covered much more than these specific points and even if the ZOE study is more accurate than the Israeli one....which I don't concede because I'm not in a position to know....it's important that the interview is seen within its wider context and points. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2021 10.51pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Dec 21 10.23pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
'Note that natural immunity wanes after 9 to 12 months.'......While I don't know how that can be said with any certainty I suspect that reinfection strength is also waning. In fact for the healthy catching a weak strain is rarely the worse outcome.....and I would hope that the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated anyway.....something I have never argued against. If people want to be 'braver' than you Maple, that should be their choice....though from you perhaps that's rather paradoxical as you have been quite happy to label them cowards previously....However, that isn't the point, which should be the protection of free choice without persecution. Also, it is important that the risk of death or indeed severe illness isn't over stressed when referring to the young and healthy.....I often find that the risks to them are conflated with that of the vulnerable groups. While I just can't be bothered to investigate any possible flaws within the ZOE study I think your quotes here can be compared to your original quotes of dismissal. But again....this interview covered much more than these specific points and even if the ZOE study is more accurate than the Israeli one....which I don't concede because I'm not in a position to know....it's important that the interview is seen within its wider context and points. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2021 10.10pm) Your interviewee had clearly not read the study he is using to claim natural immunity is 27 times higher than vaccinated. It is not an appropriate choice to eschew vaccination. We have a badly overloaded NHS and the unvaccinated represent an excessive proportion of hospitalisations. 11% of people remain unvaccinated but they represent 35% of Covid hospitalisations. People then have to risk their lives to care for the poor decisions made by these individuals. No age group is completely safe from the effects of Covid. Edited by Mapletree (05 Dec 2021 10.27pm) Edited by Mapletree (05 Dec 2021 10.31pm)
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| CPFC1965 Warrington 05 Dec 21 10.31pm |
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Speaking as someone who is double vaccinated and has tested positive 3 days ago, the virus is nasty, really nasty. Everyone just get yourselves jabbed and keep others safe. To anyone who wants to play Russian roulette with this that's your choice to everyone else get vaccinated.
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Dec 21 10.37pm |
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Originally posted by CPFC1965
Speaking as someone who is double vaccinated and has tested positive 3 days ago, the virus is nasty, really nasty. Everyone just get yourselves jabbed and keep others safe. To anyone who wants to play Russian roulette with this that's your choice to everyone else get vaccinated. Sorry to hear that. I guess it’s worrying until you know for sure you are over it but chances are you’ll be fine quickly having been vaccinated. And if you later get a booster jab you should be, relatively speaking, superman.
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| Stirlingsays 05 Dec 21 10.48pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Your interviewee had clearly not read the study he is using to claim natural immunity is 27 times higher than vaccinated. It is not an appropriate choice to eschew vaccination. We have a badly overloaded NHS and the unvaccinated represent an excessive proportion of hospitalisations. 11% of people remain unvaccinated but they represent 35% of Covid hospitalisations. People then have to risk their lives to care for the poor decisions made by these individuals. No age group is completely safe from the effects of Covid. Edited by Mapletree (05 Dec 2021 10.27pm) I think it's inappropriate and incredibly arrogant for you to criticise others for making choices over their own personal healthcare. As for the NHS and the choices that were made by the managerial class, I urge people to watch the interview before they make judgements upon just how many people will die from what....and what risks are being taken.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Dec 21 11.25pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I think it's inappropriate and incredibly arrogant for you to criticise others for making choices over their own personal healthcare. As for the NHS and the choices that were made by the managerial class, I urge people to watch the interview before they make judgements upon just how many people will die from what....and what risks are being taken. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2021 10.49pm) Whereas it isn’t arrogant to let others get vaccinated so you can stay safe whilst not contributing yourself. Knowing you are a ticking time bomb for any vulnerable contacts In terms of choices, getting vaccinated is overwhelmingly the right thing to do.
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| Stirlingsays 05 Dec 21 11.44pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Whereas it isn’t arrogant to let others get vaccinated so you can stay safe whilst not contributing yourself. Knowing you are a ticking time bomb for any vulnerable contacts In terms of choices, getting vaccinated is overwhelmingly the right thing to do. Not for the young and healthy it isn't as it is stated in the interview. Ticking time bomb? Hyperbolic nonsense. I had covid months ago and have natural immunity. Besides that I'm a believer in social distancing as just sensible behaviour anyway. For all your scare mongering we are in December and there are just over 7300 people in hospital from a population of....what is it? Near 70 million. I support hygiene and people being sensible but when it comes to supporting restrictions people are acting in fear....not reason. As for the economic carnage and lives that are being lost.....I think that fear has promoted some very short sighted mindsets within both the managerial classes and the rest of us who receive their propaganda. Some of us more trusting of it than others.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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 HKOwen  Hong Kong 06 Dec 21 7.55am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Maybe he didn't seek it, but it found him. What may have happened is that he posted a few tweets expressing his concern on the impact on cancer sufferers, which are his speciality, and they were picked up by those with an attitude needing support. The irony was totally lost
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| DanH SW2 06 Dec 21 12.27pm |
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Originally posted by CPFC1965
Speaking as someone who is double vaccinated and has tested positive 3 days ago, the virus is nasty, really nasty. Everyone just get yourselves jabbed and keep others safe. To anyone who wants to play Russian roulette with this that's your choice to everyone else get vaccinated. Can confirm this. Started off pretty mild but wiped me out now and I’m 35, in relatively good shape and double jabbed.
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