See this view, in my mind, is hypocritical. When Egypt genitally mutilate women, it's because of Islam. Yet when Ethiopia do it, it's 'nothing directly to do with Christianity'. When Breivik massacres people, writing directly Islamophobic sentiment and calling for radical Catholicism, his religion remains out of the limelight, whereas when Muslims commit similar crimes, their religion is not only the basis for why they did it, but a virulent characteristic which inherently leads people to violence. When Congolese Christians rape women, it's 'nothing directly to do with Christianity'. When IS do similar, it is everything to do with Islam.

Why? And more importantly, why do I even need to waste my time explaining that all religion is used for vicious ends, some to even greater extents than Islam has ever done (the Borges and Crusades killed more than IS ever will)? Islamic society has given us Maths, the guitar, coffee, soap, chemistry etc etc. Islamic nations like Indonesia and Turkey continue to boast some of the most incredible cultures on the planet, far more tolerant and inclusive than ours. If Islam is so evil, why are these countries so wonderful?

Like I say, what follows scapegoating is ignorance, and what follows ignorance is panic. If you are afraid of something, learn more about it and you'll realise that it really isn't that bad after all. Derben, why not pop down to your local mosque and see what they have to say to your criticisms of their religion? I'm sure they'd be willing to discuss it with you.

Please, do give specific examples of where those practices have occurred in Indonesia and Turkey, the countries I was alluding to?

Ok, maybe I was being a tad hyperbolic in the claim you highlighted, but these are just two examples of free and open Islamic democracies which share many of our moral understandings. In Turkey, which has had severe issues with gender discrimination, the TKP ran an all-women shortlist at the recent elections. Senegal has higher numbers of women in Parliament than Britain. Indonesia have independent human rights and media organisations, something many Christian countries across the world lack. Of course these countries also have many issues: homosexuality is outlawed in Senegal, the death penalty is in practice in Indonesia (but not for apostasy) and Turkey continues to oppress Armenians and Kurds. But these aren't issues specific to Muslim societies in any way shape or form, and actually these major Islamic nations are far more progressive than many of their Christian or secular neighbours.

Reza Aslan is a particularly brilliant writer on this subject, I strongly recommend taking 12 minutes out of your day and listening to this: [Link]

I also find your defence of LGBT groups particularly laughable given that you said in another thread that you oppose same-sex marriage!

Turkey, among many listed above, are NOT Islamic countries, though they do have majority Muslim populations, Turkey for example is largely secularist (like pakistan, though both have increasing Islamist problems).

Having a large, or dominant Muslim population doesn't make you Islamic, anymore than having a large Catholic or Protestant population makes you a Christian Country (even the US has separation of Church and State).

I think that's a fair point Jamie, but in the context of the argument around whether Islam itself is somehow more inherently backward than other religions and beliefs, Turkey is a fairly good example of progressive Islam, be it on a population scale rather than a governmental one.

I think that's a fair point Jamie, but in the context of the argument around whether Islam itself is somehow more inherently backward than other religions and beliefs, Turkey is a fairly good example of progressive Islam, be it on a population scale rather than a governmental one.