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Jeremy Corbyn

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 12 Apr 20 4.23pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

Will likely be buried in in all the coronavirus news but Labour report on Antisemitism for EHRC has now been blocked from going to the commission. Corbyn said to be furious about this.

The investigation, which was completed in the last month of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, claims to have found "no evidence" of antisemitism complaints being treated differently to other forms of complaint, or of current or former staff being "motivated by antisemitic intent".

Instead, the report concludes there was a lack of "robust processes, systems, training, education and effective line management" and found "abundant evidence of a hyper-factional atmosphere prevailing in Party HQ" towards Mr Corbyn which "affected the expeditious and resolute handling of disciplinary complaints".

[Link]

Ironically many of the people complaining about antisemitism within the party seemingly were making it harder to resolve...

Ironic that all complaints are acted on in the same manner. In anyones world this was really serious so surely should have be given a higher priority. Not put in a pile with minor complaints about possibly diddly squat. Just an observation as I'm not in any way knowledgableble about how this process works in the labour party.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 12 Apr 20 4.31pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle



This is the EHRC report commissioned in the final months
of Corbynís leadership, you are correct I understand there will be a full scale report to follow.

The review of this report certainly doesnít seem to show that antisemitism within Labour was made up or manufactured. This is a position I have always held and have no problem with a party that calls itself a party of social justice being held to high standards of anti racism. From my reading so far it shows it was a genuine problem among a minority and party mechanisms didnít function in the way it should.

My interest in this story today is regarding factions within Labour keen to exacerbate the problem as part of personal slight towards the leadership.

The title of the link implies it is not the EHCR report

""Labour antisemitism investigation will not be sent to equality commission""

To be honest not a well written piece of journalism as it is ambiguous I read it as Labour's own report which Corbyn wants sent to the EHCR as evidence?.

Anyway I agree with your comments I was not expecting rampant anti Semitism to be proven and factional in fighting almost certainly a contributory factor if not the main reason.

If it's the anti Corbyn faction putting the boot in it also reflects poorly on Corbyn's leadership why did he not get to grips with the blockers and fire them.

If it's Corbyn's mates sticking up for their friends and delaying investigation same thing applies. Either way Corbyn and the Labour will not come out of it well.

Saying the process was flawed as individuals who hate Corbyn were allowed to obfuscate still doesn't reflect well on him or the party.

 


One more point

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View SavoyTruffle's Profile SavoyTruffle Flag 12 Apr 20 4.41pm Send a Private Message to SavoyTruffle Add SavoyTruffle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

The title of the link implies it is not the EHCR report

""Labour antisemitism investigation will not be sent to equality commission""

To be honest not a well written piece of journalism as it is ambiguous I read it as Labour's own report which Corbyn wants sent to the EHCR as evidence?.

Anyway I agree with your comments I was not expecting rampant anti Semitism to be proven and factional in fighting almost certainly a contributory factor if not the main reason.

If it's the anti Corbyn faction putting the boot in it also reflects poorly on Corbyn's leadership why did he not get to grips with the blockers and fire them.

If it's Corbyn's mates sticking up for their friends and delaying investigation same thing applies. Either way Corbyn and the Labour will not come out of it well.

Saying the process was flawed as individuals who hate Corbyn were allowed to obfuscate still doesn't reflect well on him or the party.

Without a doubt, one my frustrations with Corbyn was a lack of strong action against factions that were clearly making his life deliberately difficult, but then again even his small measures such as attempts at making the NEC more democratic were met with cries of ĎStalinist authoritarian purgeí etc by many. For all his misgivings I think he was often damned if he did and damned if he didnít.

 

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Online Flag The Promised Land 12 Apr 20 4.42pm Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

This is absolutely staggering. But not surprising, for anyone who has been following the issue closely.

Labour under Corbyn nearly tripled its membership. But this wasn't supported by an increase in its disciplinary staff, which obviously became a major issue once the factionalism began.

People now will of course blame Momentum, and as they lost there will be little chance to refute this narrative of the past. But the simply truth is: the Labour party machinery which had been in place since Blair began a systematic attempt to dislodge Corbyn and the team around him.

The most obvious examples of this were the two botched coup attempts by the PLP. But behind the scenes something far more insidious was going on. New members of the NEC, staff members at local branches and even Corbyn's own team were being denied access to crucial internal party information.

Then anti-semitism happened. Now without boring people, I will stick to the facts here.

The only impartial data collection done on anti-semitism in UK politics worth note was a 2017 poll done by Yougov of party members from each main party in the UK. It found that anti-semitic views were highest agreed with by Conservatives, and Labour members were least likely to hold anti-semitic views. In fact, since Corbyn came to office, Labour members' had become less anti-semitic. [Link]

This isn't to say there was no anti-semitism problem in Labour. But Labour was a reflection of society at large: with blind spots, certainly, but not institutionally anti-semitic.

But as the leadership struggled to make this point, the right of the party realised its opportunity. It relentlessly targeted pro-Corbyn members as anti-semitic, filed thousands of complaints to a party tribunal which was completely underprepared for such an event, then pushed the leadership to automatically suspend anyone accused of anti-semitism, which, of course, contradicts the very tenets of justice in this country.

This led to events as bizarre as Jewish members of Labour, like Jackie Walker, being suspended because of claims of anti-semitism made, often, by non-Jewish accusers.

The media, either through ignorance or because they gleefully were jumping on any anti-Corbyn bandwagon they could find (remember Corbyn the Czech spy?) ran with it. They utilised their psychopathic tabloid reporter staff to go through every tweet, facebook post or online comment from new members to find the headlines which fuelled the fire.

When left wing members tried to raise this point, even by democratic means, this was seen as further evidence of anti-semitism. Take when Joan Ryan, MP for Enfield, had a vote of no-condfidence put against her by her local party. She immediately blamed it on 'Stalinists and communists'. Yet it had been driven because she had been filmed taking payment from an Israeli official, and accusing pro-Palestinian activists of anti-semitism. Again, making this connection was enough to have you suspended from the Labour party, but it is, of course, on record. [Link]

And so we are brought to today, where an 860 page independent document on the issue has been rejected, presumably because it is uncomfortable for the new leadership and their carte blanche acceptance of Labour under Corbyn as institutionally anti-semitic.

I know this is a tedious and long post. I write it purely to exercise my own frustrations, as someone who knows people who have been suspended because of it, was sick of the weakness shown by the previous leadership in tackling it, and is even more sickened at the new leadership, who will know the truth, at deciding, instead, to cowardly continue the lie.

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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View SavoyTruffle's Profile SavoyTruffle Flag 12 Apr 20 4.43pm Send a Private Message to SavoyTruffle Add SavoyTruffle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Ironic that all complaints are acted on in the same manner. In anyones world this was really serious so surely should have be given a higher priority. Not put in a pile with minor complaints about possibly diddly squat. Just an observation as I'm not in any way knowledgableble about how this process works in the labour party.

It means all levels of discrimination or racism were treated as the same level of severity. I.e. antisemitism wasnít deemed less important than say islamophobia, which was an criticism from some within the party.

 

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Online Flag The Promised Land 12 Apr 20 4.44pm Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

Without a doubt, one my frustrations with Corbyn was a lack of strong action against factions that were clearly making his life deliberately difficult, but then again even his small measures such as attempts at making the NEC more democratic were met with cries of ĎStalinist authoritarian purgeí etc by many. For all his misgivings I think he was often damned if he did and damned if he didnít.

Looking back, he should've acted after 2017. His stock was high, and yes, he would've got called a Stalinist, but that was inevitable either way. He should've called for mandatory reselection of MPs, renovated the party HQ and opened up funds for local parties, instead of it all being sent to central office. Had he done that, history may have been different.

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 12 Apr 20 4.55pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

This is absolutely staggering. But not surprising, for anyone who has been following the issue closely.

Labour under Corbyn nearly tripled its membership. But this wasn't supported by an increase in its disciplinary staff, which obviously became a major issue once the factionalism began.

People now will of course blame Momentum, and as they lost there will be little chance to refute this narrative of the past. But the simply truth is: the Labour party machinery which had been in place since Blair began a systematic attempt to dislodge Corbyn and the team around him.

The most obvious examples of this were the two botched coup attempts by the PLP. But behind the scenes something far more insidious was going on. New members of the NEC, staff members at local branches and even Corbyn's own team were being denied access to crucial internal party information.

Then anti-semitism happened. Now without boring people, I will stick to the facts here.

The only impartial data collection done on anti-semitism in UK politics worth note was a 2017 poll done by Yougov of party members from each main party in the UK. It found that anti-semitic views were highest agreed with by Conservatives, and Labour members were least likely to hold anti-semitic views. In fact, since Corbyn came to office, Labour members' had become less anti-semitic. [Link]

This isn't to say there was no anti-semitism problem in Labour. But Labour was a reflection of society at large: with blind spots, certainly, but not institutionally anti-semitic.

But as the leadership struggled to make this point, the right of the party realised its opportunity. It relentlessly targeted pro-Corbyn members as anti-semitic, filed thousands of complaints to a party tribunal which was completely underprepared for such an event, then pushed the leadership to automatically suspend anyone accused of anti-semitism, which, of course, contradicts the very tenets of justice in this country.

This led to events as bizarre as Jewish members of Labour, like Jackie Walker, being suspended because of claims of anti-semitism made, often, by non-Jewish accusers.

The media, either through ignorance or because they gleefully were jumping on any anti-Corbyn bandwagon they could find (remember Corbyn the Czech spy?) ran with it. They utilised their psychopathic tabloid reporter staff to go through every tweet, facebook post or online comment from new members to find the headlines which fuelled the fire.

When left wing members tried to raise this point, even by democratic means, this was seen as further evidence of anti-semitism. Take when Joan Ryan, MP for Enfield, had a vote of no-condfidence put against her by her local party. She immediately blamed it on 'Stalinists and communists'. Yet it had been driven because she had been filmed taking payment from an Israeli official, and accusing pro-Palestinian activists of anti-semitism. Again, making this connection was enough to have you suspended from the Labour party, but it is, of course, on record. [Link]

And so we are brought to today, where an 860 page independent document on the issue has been rejected, presumably because it is uncomfortable for the new leadership and their carte blanche acceptance of Labour under Corbyn as institutionally anti-semitic.

I know this is a tedious and long post. I write it purely to exercise my own frustrations, as someone who knows people who have been suspended because of it, was sick of the weakness shown by the previous leadership in tackling it, and is even more sickened at the new leadership, who will know the truth, at deciding, instead, to cowardly continue the lie.

None of what you state surprises me it all seems very plausible and very political. Still if true it highlights that some Labour people were able to block and or abuse the process which goes back to the issue of Leadership. Neil Kinnock kicked out the Militant Tendency in a very public way Corbyn must be regretting not taking action against those who conspired against him.

 


One more point

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View SavoyTruffle's Profile SavoyTruffle Flag 12 Apr 20 5.05pm Send a Private Message to SavoyTruffle Add SavoyTruffle as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

Looking back, he should've acted after 2017. His stock was high, and yes, he would've got called a Stalinist, but that was inevitable either way. He should've called for mandatory reselection of MPs, renovated the party HQ and opened up funds for local parties, instead of it all being sent to central office. Had he done that, history may have been different.

Agreed but I think he was working on the understanding that everyone in the party was an honest operator, naivety perhaps.

I would always support mandatory reselection regardless of the make up of the PLP be it left, centre or centre right, think itís a useful part of keeping debate alive. Many who were aware the makeup of the party members had changed were conscious they would have been out of a job.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 12 Apr 20 5.23pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

It means all levels of discrimination or racism were treated as the same level of severity. I.e. antisemitism wasnít deemed less important than say islamophobia, which was an criticism from some within the party.

No the article said 'complaints', not specific about categories around hate crime if that's a decent description of all types. This could have included complaints about pot holes,traffic lights,parking zones I dont know but there is no mention of the type of complaint. Tbh I'm only going by the line on the post so deeper down it may differentiate in types of complaint. If not then it is convenient at best and down right corrupt of sorts if my take on it is how it is. From a layman I might add.

 

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View the.universal's Profile the.universal 12 Apr 20 5.26pm Send a Private Message to the.universal Add the.universal as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

Looking back, he should've acted after 2017. His stock was high, and yes, he would've got called a Stalinist, but that was inevitable either way. He should've called for mandatory reselection of MPs, renovated the party HQ and opened up funds for local parties, instead of it all being sent to central office. Had he done that, history may have been different.

Corbyn was too stubborn to listen to outside influences. He was not a fan of compromise and sought to surround himself with only those who held very similar views to himself.

He fought a disastrous final election campaign. If he had have been allowed to be Ďmore Corbyní I only foresee it would have ended up badly as well.

 


Vive le Roy!

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 12 Apr 20 5.28pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

This is absolutely staggering. But not surprising, for anyone who has been following the issue closely.

Labour under Corbyn nearly tripled its membership. But this wasn't supported by an increase in its disciplinary staff, which obviously became a major issue once the factionalism began.

People now will of course blame Momentum, and as they lost there will be little chance to refute this narrative of the past. But the simply truth is: the Labour party machinery which had been in place since Blair began a systematic attempt to dislodge Corbyn and the team around him.

The most obvious examples of this were the two botched coup attempts by the PLP. But behind the scenes something far more insidious was going on. New members of the NEC, staff members at local branches and even Corbyn's own team were being denied access to crucial internal party information.

Then anti-semitism happened. Now without boring people, I will stick to the facts here.

The only impartial data collection done on anti-semitism in UK politics worth note was a 2017 poll done by Yougov of party members from each main party in the UK. It found that anti-semitic views were highest agreed with by Conservatives, and Labour members were least likely to hold anti-semitic views. In fact, since Corbyn came to office, Labour members' had become less anti-semitic. [Link]

This isn't to say there was no anti-semitism problem in Labour. But Labour was a reflection of society at large: with blind spots, certainly, but not institutionally anti-semitic.

But as the leadership struggled to make this point, the right of the party realised its opportunity. It relentlessly targeted pro-Corbyn members as anti-semitic, filed thousands of complaints to a party tribunal which was completely underprepared for such an event, then pushed the leadership to automatically suspend anyone accused of anti-semitism, which, of course, contradicts the very tenets of justice in this country.

This led to events as bizarre as Jewish members of Labour, like Jackie Walker, being suspended because of claims of anti-semitism made, often, by non-Jewish accusers.

The media, either through ignorance or because they gleefully were jumping on any anti-Corbyn bandwagon they could find (remember Corbyn the Czech spy?) ran with it. They utilised their psychopathic tabloid reporter staff to go through every tweet, facebook post or online comment from new members to find the headlines which fuelled the fire.

When left wing members tried to raise this point, even by democratic means, this was seen as further evidence of anti-semitism. Take when Joan Ryan, MP for Enfield, had a vote of no-condfidence put against her by her local party. She immediately blamed it on 'Stalinists and communists'. Yet it had been driven because she had been filmed taking payment from an Israeli official, and accusing pro-Palestinian activists of anti-semitism. Again, making this connection was enough to have you suspended from the Labour party, but it is, of course, on record. [Link]

And so we are brought to today, where an 860 page independent document on the issue has been rejected, presumably because it is uncomfortable for the new leadership and their carte blanche acceptance of Labour under Corbyn as institutionally anti-semitic.

I know this is a tedious and long post. I write it purely to exercise my own frustrations, as someone who knows people who have been suspended because of it, was sick of the weakness shown by the previous leadership in tackling it, and is even more sickened at the new leadership, who will know the truth, at deciding, instead, to cowardly continue the lie.

I will say this stinks a bit of black lives matter with non blacks reporting loads of issues. I beleive david lammy and malcom x mentioned such. I think they used the term the head of the snake.
Just saying, I dont want any slurs as this surely is relevant with non Jewish people slinging the mud. I'm not saying it didnt and isnt happening it's just a bit well, weird.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 12 Apr 20 5.29pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by SavoyTruffle

Agreed but I think he was working on the understanding that everyone in the party was an honest operator, naivety perhaps.

I would always support mandatory reselection regardless of the make up of the PLP
be it left, centre or centre right, think itís a useful part of keeping debate alive. Many who were aware the makeup of the party members had changed were conscious they would have been out of a job.

It should be mandatory for all political parties. If MPs knew that they had to face mandatory reselection every GE they might put more of a shift in. In my constituency we say shave a monkey and put a blue rosette on it...

 


One more point

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