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johnfirewall 04 Aug 15 12.36pm
Quote sa_eagle at 04 Aug 2015 12.21pm The Ethiopian shopkeeper Not to discredit your evidence but things are slightly different here. I'd imagine the nations who are a bit behind on these matters will learn from Labour's mistakes and perhaps if levels reach anywhere near ours, your governments will be better placed to take action.
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johnfirewall

04 Aug 15 12.36pm

Quote sa_eagle at 04 Aug 2015 12.21pm

The Ethiopian shopkeeper

Not to discredit your evidence but things are slightly different here.

I'd imagine the nations who are a bit behind on these matters will learn from Labour's mistakes and perhaps if levels reach anywhere near ours, your governments will be better placed to take action.

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The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 04 Aug 15 1.03pm
Quote nickgusset at 04 Aug 2015 11.42am Quote dannyh at 04 Aug 2015 11.36am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.26am Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is. Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason? If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time. There is nothing wrong with people coming here to set up a legitimate attempt at a better life through work etc, not the people in Calais who are hell bent on coming here because of all the riches it brings. They aren't proper immigrants, they are economic migrants. As are pretty much 99% of those here legally. Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches Maybe I didn't put my point across correctly so apologies. My main point is that the people in Calais have no skill, we have enough unskilled labour that should be put to work. The left's main argument is that these people are escaping war torn parts of the world, well if that was the case they should claim asylum in the first country they arrive in, not travel across 5-6 borders and demanding that it's here that they want to come. Doctors, scientists, engineers, nurses, footballers yes, unskilled people who want to be propped up by the state a definite NO. Not actually true - there was an interview with a guy the other day on the Beeb - cant remember exact country of origin but he was a qualified accountant - now you could argue that accountancy isn't exactly an area where we need to welcome immigrants with CIMA qualifications with open arms but not everyone hopping the fence is here to grab as many benefits as they can and f*** our daughters... For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it. Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am) Certainly something needs to be done about the madness in Calais as we can't sustain this level of immigration. Of course the left wing fraternity on here want everyone to be allowed in. Are fore father fought against invasion only for the looney left to unbolt the door. It's interesting to see none of them with yellow cards to their names as their comments are quite inflammatory and downright aggressive ie name calling etc. Maybe they're friendly with certain people so are immune. Edited by fed up eagle (04 Aug 2015 11.27am) Something I have noted a long time ago. You are arguing (vehmently I might add) for the right, but the left not to be outdone are comming out with equally high measures of Jingoistic bullsh1t. MODS i've seen this before in a two sided argument only one side gets the card. Not really rules for everybody is it Erm, I've had 3 yellows over the years. Ooooh Look at you - a regular Joey Barton.... As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014
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The Sash

Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 04 Aug 15 1.03pm

Quote nickgusset at 04 Aug 2015 11.42am

Quote dannyh at 04 Aug 2015 11.36am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.26am

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am

Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am

Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is.

Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason?

If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time.

There is nothing wrong with people coming here to set up a legitimate attempt at a better life through work etc, not the people in Calais who are hell bent on coming here because of all the riches it brings. They aren't proper immigrants, they are economic migrants.

As are pretty much 99% of those here legally.

Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches

Maybe I didn't put my point across correctly so apologies. My main point is that the people in Calais have no skill, we have enough unskilled labour that should be put to work. The left's main argument is that these people are escaping war torn parts of the world, well if that was the case they should claim asylum in the first country they arrive in, not travel across 5-6 borders and demanding that it's here that they want to come. Doctors, scientists, engineers, nurses, footballers yes, unskilled people who want to be propped up by the state a definite NO.

Not actually true - there was an interview with a guy the other day on the Beeb - cant remember exact country of origin but he was a qualified accountant - now you could argue that accountancy isn't exactly an area where we need to welcome immigrants with CIMA qualifications with open arms but not everyone hopping the fence is here to grab as many benefits as they can and f*** our daughters...

For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it.

Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am)

Certainly something needs to be done about the madness in Calais as we can't sustain this level of immigration. Of course the left wing fraternity on here want everyone to be allowed in. Are fore father fought against invasion only for the looney left to unbolt the door. It's interesting to see none of them with yellow cards to their names as their comments are quite inflammatory and downright aggressive ie name calling etc. Maybe they're friendly with certain people so are immune.

Edited by fed up eagle (04 Aug 2015 11.27am)

Something I have noted a long time ago. You are arguing (vehmently I might add) for the right, but the left not to be outdone are comming out with equally high measures of Jingoistic bullsh1t.

MODS i've seen this before in a two sided argument only one side gets the card.

Not really rules for everybody is it

Erm, I've had 3 yellows over the years.

Ooooh Look at you - a regular Joey Barton....

As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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fed up eagle Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 04 Aug 15 3.57pm
Quote sa_eagle at 04 Aug 2015 12.21pm Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.55am Quote sa_eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.35am Quote fed up eagle at 03 Aug 2015 11.05pm Right, it's time to pull up the draw bridge, batten down the hatches. NO MORE IMMIGRANTS, PERIOD. And the ones that are here that aren't supposed to be need to be deported with immediate effect, end of. No more bleeding heart cr@P. So if the UK followed your line we'd not have the likes of Zaha, Bolasie, Jedinak, Speroni, Mariappa, Souare, Chamakh, Appiah, Guedioura or Lee to name a few. I love Palace and I love being connected to other Palace fans but I hate how stupid some Palace fans are! What an utterly ridiculous post. The people you mentioned earn money and aren't TAKING MONEY OFF THE TAXPAYER. The players you have mentioned have come here because of work and they posses a certain skill. You really don't understand my post do you? I suppose you would let everyone who is waiting in Calais in, feed them, water them and give them money just because they demand it? Yes you're right some Palace fans are stupid. I understand exactly how ludicrous your post and position is, that's why I was making the equally ridiculous point about certain players who have benefitted fom immigration. Your nonsensical argument falls down when you begin to separate out those who "have come here because of work and they posses a certain skill" and the rest. How can you possibly judge people whilst you have your head so deeply ensconced in your Daily Mail?! I work with many so called illegal immigrants here in South Africa and without fail they are all very well educated and articulate people, one is even a doctor. Sadly however, this country has an even worse attitude to immigrants than you do, and these attitudes are then picked up by the man in the street who on several occassions in the last few years has taken to sticking tyres around the necks of immigrants and setting fire to them. It's called xenophobia and it seems to be rearing its ugly head right here on the HOL. Don't think for a minute that such things couldn't happen in the UK because they could. I recently met one of the local leaders of the xenophobic violence here, it turns out he's quite a nice guy at a superficial level (just as I'm sure you are). He has a decent job and a decent house, by township standards in SA he's doing well. He never though he was racist and had no real hatred of foriegners but somehow got caught up in the media fed frenzy and before he knew it he was organising house raids on immigrants and trashing their homes and beating them up. He's not proud of what he's done and he knows he's in a lot of trouble, but he also realises that he was totally wrong. The Ethiopian shopkeeper in a nearby township hasn't taken anyone's job, rather he opened a shop where there wasn't one and now employs two locals thereby creating work. The many Zimbabweans I know here all fled because they genuinely feared for their lives. Some of the women have been repeatedly raped by Mugabe's regime so they would rather risk their lives crossing a relatively safe land border (no desperate boat trips here) than remain at home. They would also rather face the wrath of the xenophobic violence than return home. I have a few friends from the DRC who will tell you that if they were forced to return to their homes they would kill themselves because they are so scared. Another friend of mine came from Angola, his parents paid for him to be smuggled into SA during the conflict in Angola. His parents were killed during the conflict and he has no home to return to. This particular guy is fluent in seven languages but still can't work here legally, despite being well educated and a totally quality guy. I for one would accept all of these people because not a single one of them would be a draw on local resources and benefits, rather, they all would (and do) contribute to the local economy. I value people for they are not for what I'm told they are so I'll leave you and your well earned yellow card to continue in your rabid ranting. I for one am out of this discussion. Oh I see so we'll let all these people in because they demand it and they want money. Football players come here and are paid money so they can support themselves, these people are coming here because they want to be fed, watered and want BENEFITS. Why the hell can't they go somewhere else? Why here? They are just bloody parasites. Of course living in cape town it won't affect you will it? It'll just affect the rest of us here who are trying to make a living and are already seeing are population rising to a ridiculous level. Jesus Christ does anybody understand the implications of caving into these people and letting them all come? Are people so stubbornly stupid that they just let this go on? Well from what I've read the answer is a resounding yes. There's no telling some people. Unbelievable. I'm done arguing with idiots. Of course Enoch Powell saw all this happening, but what the hell, let everyone in. MORONS. Do you honestly think they're all going to open shops, FFS. Oh and I don't just read the Daily Mail-good paper though it is-I read many to get a proper view of things. You ask the truck driver who is threatened by an immigrant or a group of immigrants. How long before a truck driver is killed. Yeah I have a yellow card, but if it's for saying what I believe then so be it. I'm not going to pretend to have some silly multi culti view just to fit in with everyone else's craven stupidity. It's time things were said that people are too scared to say for fear of being shouted down by some Guardian reading idiot. Edited by fed up eagle (04 Aug 2015 4.04pm)
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fed up eagle

Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 04 Aug 15 3.57pm

Quote sa_eagle at 04 Aug 2015 12.21pm

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.55am

Quote sa_eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.35am

Quote fed up eagle at 03 Aug 2015 11.05pm

Right, it's time to pull up the draw bridge, batten down the hatches. NO MORE IMMIGRANTS, PERIOD. And the ones that are here that aren't supposed to be need to be deported with immediate effect, end of. No more bleeding heart cr@P.

So if the UK followed your line we'd not have the likes of Zaha, Bolasie, Jedinak, Speroni, Mariappa, Souare, Chamakh, Appiah, Guedioura or Lee to name a few.

I love Palace and I love being connected to other Palace fans but I hate how stupid some Palace fans are!

What an utterly ridiculous post. The people you mentioned earn money and aren't TAKING MONEY OFF THE TAXPAYER. The players you have mentioned have come here because of work and they posses a certain skill. You really don't understand my post do you? I suppose you would let everyone who is waiting in Calais in, feed them, water them and give them money just because they demand it? Yes you're right some Palace fans are stupid.

I understand exactly how ludicrous your post and position is, that's why I was making the equally ridiculous point about certain players who have benefitted fom immigration.

Your nonsensical argument falls down when you begin to separate out those who "have come here because of work and they posses a certain skill" and the rest. How can you possibly judge people whilst you have your head so deeply ensconced in your Daily Mail?!

I work with many so called illegal immigrants here in South Africa and without fail they are all very well educated and articulate people, one is even a doctor. Sadly however, this country has an even worse attitude to immigrants than you do, and these attitudes are then picked up by the man in the street who on several occassions in the last few years has taken to sticking tyres around the necks of immigrants and setting fire to them. It's called xenophobia and it seems to be rearing its ugly head right here on the HOL.

Don't think for a minute that such things couldn't happen in the UK because they could. I recently met one of the local leaders of the xenophobic violence here, it turns out he's quite a nice guy at a superficial level (just as I'm sure you are). He has a decent job and a decent house, by township standards in SA he's doing well. He never though he was racist and had no real hatred of foriegners but somehow got caught up in the media fed frenzy and before he knew it he was organising house raids on immigrants and trashing their homes and beating them up. He's not proud of what he's done and he knows he's in a lot of trouble, but he also realises that he was totally wrong.

The Ethiopian shopkeeper in a nearby township hasn't taken anyone's job, rather he opened a shop where there wasn't one and now employs two locals thereby creating work. The many Zimbabweans I know here all fled because they genuinely feared for their lives. Some of the women have been repeatedly raped by Mugabe's regime so they would rather risk their lives crossing a relatively safe land border (no desperate boat trips here) than remain at home. They would also rather face the wrath of the xenophobic violence than return home. I have a few friends from the DRC who will tell you that if they were forced to return to their homes they would kill themselves because they are so scared. Another friend of mine came from Angola, his parents paid for him to be smuggled into SA during the conflict in Angola. His parents were killed during the conflict and he has no home to return to. This particular guy is fluent in seven languages but still can't work here legally, despite being well educated and a totally quality guy.

I for one would accept all of these people because not a single one of them would be a draw on local resources and benefits, rather, they all would (and do) contribute to the local economy.

I value people for they are not for what I'm told they are so I'll leave you and your well earned yellow card to continue in your rabid ranting. I for one am out of this discussion.

Oh I see so we'll let all these people in because they demand it and they want money. Football players come here and are paid money so they can support themselves, these people are coming here because they want to be fed, watered and want BENEFITS. Why the hell can't they go somewhere else? Why here? They are just bloody parasites. Of course living in cape town it won't affect you will it? It'll just affect the rest of us here who are trying to make a living and are already seeing are population rising to a ridiculous level. Jesus Christ does anybody understand the implications of caving into these people and letting them all come? Are people so stubbornly stupid that they just let this go on? Well from what I've read the answer is a resounding yes. There's no telling some people. Unbelievable. I'm done arguing with idiots. Of course Enoch Powell saw all this happening, but what the hell, let everyone in. MORONS. Do you honestly think they're all going to open shops, FFS.
Oh and I don't just read the Daily Mail-good paper though it is-I read many to get a proper view of things. You ask the truck driver who is threatened by an immigrant or a group of immigrants. How long before a truck driver is killed. Yeah I have a yellow card, but if it's for saying what I believe then so be it. I'm not going to pretend to have some silly multi culti view just to fit in with everyone else's craven stupidity. It's time things were said that people are too scared to say for fear of being shouted down by some Guardian reading idiot.

Edited by fed up eagle (04 Aug 2015 4.04pm)

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crystal balls The Garden of Earthly Delights 04 Aug 15 4.24pm
Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is. Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason? If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time. There is nothing wrong with people coming here to set up a legitimate attempt at a better life through work etc, not the people in Calais who are hell bent on coming here because of all the riches it brings. They aren't proper immigrants, they are economic migrants. As are pretty much 99% of those here legally. Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches Maybe I didn't put my point across correctly so apologies. My main point is that the people in Calais have no skill, we have enough unskilled labour that should be put to work. The left's main argument is that these people are escaping war torn parts of the world, well if that was the case they should claim asylum in the first country they arrive in, not travel across 5-6 borders and demanding that it's here that they want to come. Doctors, scientists, engineers, nurses, footballers yes, unskilled people who want to be propped up by the state a definite NO. Not actually true - there was an interview with a guy the other day on the Beeb - cant remember exact country of origin but he was a qualified accountant - now you could argue that accountancy isn't exactly an area where we need to welcome immigrants with CIMA qualifications with open arms but not everyone hopping the fence is here to grab as many benefits as they can and f*** our daughters... For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it. Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am) The thing is, once an asylum seeker is granted asylum in any other EU country they will have the same rights to movement of labour as any other citizen throughout the EU, so could actually come here if they wanted. Interestingly in the first quarter of the year around 250,000 people came to the EU to claim asylum; less than 10,000 came to the UK, over 70,000 went to Germany, with France and Italy receiving over 30,000 each. Even Hungary had 17,000 applicants. The myth that immigrants all want to come to the UK just doesn't stack up. And the availability of benefits and the amount paid to immigrants is not appreciably different to most other EU countries. I used to be immortal
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crystal balls

The Garden of Earthly Delights 04 Aug 15 4.24pm

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am

Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am

Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is.

Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason?

If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time.

As are pretty much 99% of those here legally.

Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches

For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it.

Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am)

The thing is, once an asylum seeker is granted asylum in any other EU country they will have the same rights to movement of labour as any other citizen throughout the EU, so could actually come here if they wanted.

Interestingly in the first quarter of the year around 250,000 people came to the EU to claim asylum; less than 10,000 came to the UK, over 70,000 went to Germany, with France and Italy receiving over 30,000 each. Even Hungary had 17,000 applicants.

The myth that immigrants all want to come to the UK just doesn't stack up. And the availability of benefits and the amount paid to immigrants is not appreciably different to most other EU countries.

I used to be immortal

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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 04 Aug 15 4.31pm
Quote crystal balls at 04 Aug 2015 4.24pm Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is. Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason? If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time. There is nothing wrong with people coming here to set up a legitimate attempt at a better life through work etc, not the people in Calais who are hell bent on coming here because of all the riches it brings. They aren't proper immigrants, they are economic migrants. As are pretty much 99% of those here legally. Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches Maybe I didn't put my point across correctly so apologies. My main point is that the people in Calais have no skill, we have enough unskilled labour that should be put to work. The left's main argument is that these people are escaping war torn parts of the world, well if that was the case they should claim asylum in the first country they arrive in, not travel across 5-6 borders and demanding that it's here that they want to come. Doctors, scientists, engineers, nurses, footballers yes, unskilled people who want to be propped up by the state a definite NO. Not actually true - there was an interview with a guy the other day on the Beeb - cant remember exact country of origin but he was a qualified accountant - now you could argue that accountancy isn't exactly an area where we need to welcome immigrants with CIMA qualifications with open arms but not everyone hopping the fence is here to grab as many benefits as they can and f* our daughters... For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it. Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am) The thing is, once an asylum seeker is granted asylum in any other EU country they will have the same rights to movement of labour as any other citizen throughout the EU, so could actually come here if they wanted. Interestingly in the first quarter of the year around 250,000 people came to the EU to claim asylum; less than 10,000 came to the UK, over 70,000 went to Germany, with France and Italy receiving over 30,000 each. Even Hungary had 17,000 applicants. The myth that immigrants all want to come to the UK just doesn't stack up**. And the availability of benefits and the amount paid to immigrants is not appreciably different to most other EU countries. I have noticed that it is only immigrants in France at Calais that are breaking down fences, boarding trains, running through the tunnel and breaking into cars and Lorries that are in the public eye. This is not happening in Germany or Hungary. I wonder why....could it be that we pay ANYONE who enters a pile of cash and give them a house and free healthcare which in turn brings the whole countries services to a critical state as it is now.....not to mention once some are in they bring their whole family tribe in???? Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.
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susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 04 Aug 15 4.31pm

Quote crystal balls at 04 Aug 2015 4.24pm

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am

Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am

Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is.

Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason?

If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time.

As are pretty much 99% of those here legally.

Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches

For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it.

Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am)

The myth that immigrants all want to come to the UK just doesn't stack up. And the availability of benefits and the amount paid to immigrants is not appreciably different to most other EU countries.

I have noticed that it is only immigrants in France at Calais that are breaking down fences, boarding trains, running through the tunnel and breaking into cars and Lorries that are in the public eye. This is not happening in Germany or Hungary. I wonder why....could it be that we pay ANYONE who enters a pile of cash and give them a house and free healthcare which in turn brings the whole countries services to a critical state as it is now.....not to mention once some are in they bring their whole family tribe in????

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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nairb75 Baltimore 04 Aug 15 5.33pm
Quote susmik at 04 Aug 2015 4.31pm I have noticed that it is only immigrants in France at Calais that are breaking down fences, boarding trains, running through the tunnel and breaking into cars and Lorries that are in the public eye. This is not happening in Germany or Hungary. I wonder why....could it be that we pay ANYONE who enters a pile of cash and give them a house and free healthcare which in turn brings the whole countries services to a critical state as it is now.....not to mention once some are in they bring their whole family tribe in???? they already get those benefits in france, germany and hungary. they aren't lining up in calais b/c of benefits. it's b/c they can speak english and have a much better prospect for work and education.
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nairb75

Baltimore 04 Aug 15 5.33pm

Quote susmik at 04 Aug 2015 4.31pm

they already get those benefits in france, germany and hungary. they aren't lining up in calais b/c of benefits. it's b/c they can speak english and have a much better prospect for work and education.

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fed up eagle Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 04 Aug 15 5.36pm
Quote susmik at 04 Aug 2015 4.31pm Quote crystal balls at 04 Aug 2015 4.24pm Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is. Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason? If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time. There is nothing wrong with people coming here to set up a legitimate attempt at a better life through work etc, not the people in Calais who are hell bent on coming here because of all the riches it brings. They aren't proper immigrants, they are economic migrants. As are pretty much 99% of those here legally. Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches Maybe I didn't put my point across correctly so apologies. My main point is that the people in Calais have no skill, we have enough unskilled labour that should be put to work. The left's main argument is that these people are escaping war torn parts of the world, well if that was the case they should claim asylum in the first country they arrive in, not travel across 5-6 borders and demanding that it's here that they want to come. Doctors, scientists, engineers, nurses, footballers yes, unskilled people who want to be propped up by the state a definite NO. Not actually true - there was an interview with a guy the other day on the Beeb - cant remember exact country of origin but he was a qualified accountant - now you could argue that accountancy isn't exactly an area where we need to welcome immigrants with CIMA qualifications with open arms but not everyone hopping the fence is here to grab as many benefits as they can and f* our daughters... For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it. Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am) The thing is, once an asylum seeker is granted asylum in any other EU country they will have the same rights to movement of labour as any other citizen throughout the EU, so could actually come here if they wanted. Interestingly in the first quarter of the year around 250,000 people came to the EU to claim asylum; less than 10,000 came to the UK, over 70,000 went to Germany, with France and Italy receiving over 30,000 each. Even Hungary had 17,000 applicants. The myth that immigrants all want to come to the UK just doesn't stack up**. And the availability of benefits and the amount paid to immigrants is not appreciably different to most other EU countries. I have noticed that it is only immigrants in France at Calais that are breaking down fences, boarding trains, running through the tunnel and breaking into cars and Lorries that are in the public eye. This is not happening in Germany or Hungary. I wonder why....could it be that we pay ANYONE who enters a pile of cash and give them a house and free healthcare which in turn brings the whole countries services to a critical state as it is now.....not to mention once some are in they bring their whole family tribe in???? Exacttly. You hit the nail on the head Sir.
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fed up eagle

Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 04 Aug 15 5.36pm

Quote susmik at 04 Aug 2015 4.31pm

Quote crystal balls at 04 Aug 2015 4.24pm

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am

Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am

Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is.

Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason?

If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time.

As are pretty much 99% of those here legally.

Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches

For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it.

Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am)

Exacttly. You hit the nail on the head Sir.

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fed up eagle Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 04 Aug 15 5.39pm
Quote crystal balls at 04 Aug 2015 4.24pm Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is. Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason? If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time. There is nothing wrong with people coming here to set up a legitimate attempt at a better life through work etc, not the people in Calais who are hell bent on coming here because of all the riches it brings. They aren't proper immigrants, they are economic migrants. As are pretty much 99% of those here legally. Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches Maybe I didn't put my point across correctly so apologies. My main point is that the people in Calais have no skill, we have enough unskilled labour that should be put to work. The left's main argument is that these people are escaping war torn parts of the world, well if that was the case they should claim asylum in the first country they arrive in, not travel across 5-6 borders and demanding that it's here that they want to come. Doctors, scientists, engineers, nurses, footballers yes, unskilled people who want to be propped up by the state a definite NO. Not actually true - there was an interview with a guy the other day on the Beeb - cant remember exact country of origin but he was a qualified accountant - now you could argue that accountancy isn't exactly an area where we need to welcome immigrants with CIMA qualifications with open arms but not everyone hopping the fence is here to grab as many benefits as they can and f*** our daughters... For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it. Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am) The thing is, once an asylum seeker is granted asylum in any other EU country they will have the same rights to movement of labour as any other citizen throughout the EU, so could actually come here if they wanted. Interestingly in the first quarter of the year around 250,000 people came to the EU to claim asylum; less than 10,000 came to the UK, over 70,000 went to Germany, with France and Italy receiving over 30,000 each. Even Hungary had 17,000 applicants. The myth that immigrants all want to come to the UK just doesn't stack up. And the availability of benefits and the amount paid to immigrants is not appreciably different to most other EU countries. The problem is that countries like Germany and France are much bigger than Britain, so in terms of our size we are taking more than our fair share.
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fed up eagle

Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 04 Aug 15 5.39pm

Quote crystal balls at 04 Aug 2015 4.24pm

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am

Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am

Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is.

Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason?

If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time.

As are pretty much 99% of those here legally.

Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches

For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it.

Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am)

The myth that immigrants all want to come to the UK just doesn't stack up. And the availability of benefits and the amount paid to immigrants is not appreciably different to most other EU countries.

The problem is that countries like Germany and France are much bigger than Britain, so in terms of our size we are taking more than our fair share.

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TheJudge 04 Aug 15 5.45pm
Quote susmik at 04 Aug 2015 4.31pm Quote crystal balls at 04 Aug 2015 4.24pm Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is. Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason? If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time. There is nothing wrong with people coming here to set up a legitimate attempt at a better life through work etc, not the people in Calais who are hell bent on coming here because of all the riches it brings. They aren't proper immigrants, they are economic migrants. As are pretty much 99% of those here legally. Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches Maybe I didn't put my point across correctly so apologies. My main point is that the people in Calais have no skill, we have enough unskilled labour that should be put to work. The left's main argument is that these people are escaping war torn parts of the world, well if that was the case they should claim asylum in the first country they arrive in, not travel across 5-6 borders and demanding that it's here that they want to come. Doctors, scientists, engineers, nurses, footballers yes, unskilled people who want to be propped up by the state a definite NO. Not actually true - there was an interview with a guy the other day on the Beeb - cant remember exact country of origin but he was a qualified accountant - now you could argue that accountancy isn't exactly an area where we need to welcome immigrants with CIMA qualifications with open arms but not everyone hopping the fence is here to grab as many benefits as they can and f* our daughters... For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it. Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am) The thing is, once an asylum seeker is granted asylum in any other EU country they will have the same rights to movement of labour as any other citizen throughout the EU, so could actually come here if they wanted. Interestingly in the first quarter of the year around 250,000 people came to the EU to claim asylum; less than 10,000 came to the UK, over 70,000 went to Germany, with France and Italy receiving over 30,000 each. Even Hungary had 17,000 applicants. The myth that immigrants all want to come to the UK just doesn't stack up**. And the availability of benefits and the amount paid to immigrants is not appreciably different to most other EU countries. I have noticed that it is only immigrants in France at Calais that are breaking down fences, boarding trains, running through the tunnel and breaking into cars and Lorries that are in the public eye. This is not happening in Germany or Hungary. I wonder why....could it be that we pay ANYONE who enters a pile of cash and give them a house and free healthcare which in turn brings the whole countries services to a critical state as it is now.....not to mention once some are in they bring their whole family tribe in???? Or it could be that we are surrounded by something called the sea. It's probably a lot easier to sneak into Germany. I'm beginning to think that the Channel Tunnel was a bad idea.
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TheJudge

04 Aug 15 5.45pm

Quote susmik at 04 Aug 2015 4.31pm

Quote crystal balls at 04 Aug 2015 4.24pm

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am

Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am

Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is.

Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason?

If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time.

As are pretty much 99% of those here legally.

Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches

For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it.

Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am)

Or it could be that we are surrounded by something called the sea. It's probably a lot easier to sneak into Germany.
I'm beginning to think that the Channel Tunnel was a bad idea.

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elgrande bedford 04 Aug 15 5.51pm
Quote nairb75 at 04 Aug 2015 5.33pm Quote susmik at 04 Aug 2015 4.31pm I have noticed that it is only immigrants in France at Calais that are breaking down fences, boarding trains, running through the tunnel and breaking into cars and Lorries that are in the public eye. This is not happening in Germany or Hungary. I wonder why....could it be that we pay ANYONE who enters a pile of cash and give them a house and free healthcare which in turn brings the whole countries services to a critical state as it is now.....not to mention once some are in they bring their whole family tribe in???? they already get those benefits in france, germany and hungary. they aren't lining up in calais b/c of benefits. it's b/c they can speak english and have a much better prospect for work and education. Really and you know this how? Yes they can come over and get 4/5 an hour work....But what does that do,nothing apart from keep the wages low for the people here already looking for jobs/housing/education/healthcare. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.
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elgrande

bedford 04 Aug 15 5.51pm

Quote nairb75 at 04 Aug 2015 5.33pm

Quote susmik at 04 Aug 2015 4.31pm

they already get those benefits in france, germany and hungary. they aren't lining up in calais b/c of benefits. it's b/c they can speak english and have a much better prospect for work and education.

Really and you know this how?
Yes they can come over and get 4/5 an hour work....But what does that do,nothing apart from keep the wages low for the people here already looking for jobs/housing/education/healthcare.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Aug 15 5.58pm
Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 5.36pm Quote susmik at 04 Aug 2015 4.31pm Quote crystal balls at 04 Aug 2015 4.24pm Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is. Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason? If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time. There is nothing wrong with people coming here to set up a legitimate attempt at a better life through work etc, not the people in Calais who are hell bent on coming here because of all the riches it brings. They aren't proper immigrants, they are economic migrants. As are pretty much 99% of those here legally. Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches Maybe I didn't put my point across correctly so apologies. My main point is that the people in Calais have no skill, we have enough unskilled labour that should be put to work. The left's main argument is that these people are escaping war torn parts of the world, well if that was the case they should claim asylum in the first country they arrive in, not travel across 5-6 borders and demanding that it's here that they want to come. Doctors, scientists, engineers, nurses, footballers yes, unskilled people who want to be propped up by the state a definite NO. Not actually true - there was an interview with a guy the other day on the Beeb - cant remember exact country of origin but he was a qualified accountant - now you could argue that accountancy isn't exactly an area where we need to welcome immigrants with CIMA qualifications with open arms but not everyone hopping the fence is here to grab as many benefits as they can and f* our daughters... For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it. Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am) The thing is, once an asylum seeker is granted asylum in any other EU country they will have the same rights to movement of labour as any other citizen throughout the EU, so could actually come here if they wanted. Interestingly in the first quarter of the year around 250,000 people came to the EU to claim asylum; less than 10,000 came to the UK, over 70,000 went to Germany, with France and Italy receiving over 30,000 each. Even Hungary had 17,000 applicants. The myth that immigrants all want to come to the UK just doesn't stack up. And the availability of benefits and the amount paid to immigrants is not appreciably different to most other EU countries. I have noticed that it is only immigrants in France at Calais that are breaking down fences, boarding trains, running through the tunnel and breaking into cars and Lorries that are in the public eye. This is not happening in Germany or Hungary. I wonder why....could it be that we pay ANYONE who enters a pile of cash and give them a house and free healthcare which in turn brings the whole countries services to a critical state as it is now.....not to mention once some are in they bring their whole family tribe in???? Exacttly. You hit the nail on the head Sir. No he hasn't. It's complete unsubstantiated bs. The country isn't in crisis because of immigration, it's in crisis because of successive s* governments in hock to moneymen. Edited by nickgusset (04 Aug 2015 6.14pm)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 04 Aug 15 5.58pm

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 5.36pm

Quote susmik at 04 Aug 2015 4.31pm

Quote crystal balls at 04 Aug 2015 4.24pm

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 11.10am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 11.05am

Quote The Sash at 04 Aug 2015 10.39am

Quote fed up eagle at 04 Aug 2015 10.20am

Quote Catfish at 04 Aug 2015 8.43am

Of interest, it would be helpful if posters could start by defining what they think immigration is.

Are you talking about anyone coming here to live, whether legally or not, of any nationality and for any reason?

If, on the other hand, you are talking about specific groups, nationalities, races, then please do say so up front. Saves so much time.

As are pretty much 99% of those here legally.

Lets be honest they don't come here for the weather or our sandy beaches

For what its worth I totally agree on the asylum part - first 'safe' country you meet should mean that country have the obligation to grant you asylum and you take it or leave it.

Edited by The Sash (04 Aug 2015 11.11am)

Exacttly. You hit the nail on the head Sir.

No he hasn't. It's complete unsubstantiated bs.
The country isn't in crisis because of immigration, it's in crisis because of successive s*** governments in hock to moneymen.

Edited by nickgusset (04 Aug 2015 6.14pm)

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nairb75 Baltimore 04 Aug 15 6.12pm
Quote elgrande at 04 Aug 2015 5.51pm Quote nairb75 at 04 Aug 2015 5.33pm Quote susmik at 04 Aug 2015 4.31pm I have noticed that it is only immigrants in France at Calais that are breaking down fences, boarding trains, running through the tunnel and breaking into cars and Lorries that are in the public eye. This is not happening in Germany or Hungary. I wonder why....could it be that we pay ANYONE who enters a pile of cash and give them a house and free healthcare which in turn brings the whole countries services to a critical state as it is now.....not to mention once some are in they bring their whole family tribe in???? they already get those benefits in france, germany and hungary. they aren't lining up in calais b/c of benefits. it's b/c they can speak english and have a much better prospect for work and education. Really and you know this how? Yes they can come over and get 4/5 an hour work....But what does that do,nothing apart from keep the wages low for the people here already looking for jobs/housing/education/healthcare. i know this because i'm able to read the news and listen to their interviews where they tell people these things instead of coming up with the answer in my head, completely devoid of any evidence or logic. why do you think people are there? now remember, they get the same or better benefits in calais. it's just a few miles away. they aren't going to starve there. now, why is it that people would potentially risk their lives if it isn't for food, $, shelter? AND here's another piece of the puzzle to help you: they CAN NOT speak french but they CAN speak english. what say you to this incredibly challenging puzzle?
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nairb75

Baltimore 04 Aug 15 6.12pm

Quote elgrande at 04 Aug 2015 5.51pm

Quote nairb75 at 04 Aug 2015 5.33pm

Quote susmik at 04 Aug 2015 4.31pm

i know this because i'm able to read the news and listen to their interviews where they tell people these things instead of coming up with the answer in my head, completely devoid of any evidence or logic.

why do you think people are there? now remember, they get the same or better benefits in calais. it's just a few miles away. they aren't going to starve there. now, why is it that people would potentially risk their lives if it isn't for food, $, shelter? AND here's another piece of the puzzle to help you: they CAN NOT speak french but they CAN speak english. what say you to this incredibly challenging puzzle?

Alert a moderator to this post

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