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January 27 2023 2.31pm

Anti immigration parties on the rise

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View oldcodger's Profile oldcodger Flag 03 Sep 15 8.14am Send a Private Message to oldcodger Add oldcodger as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 7.50am

Quote oldcodger at 02 Sep 2015 11.06pm

Quote bright&wright at 02 Sep 2015 8.13am

A mass exodus of a country's population is not an answer. You can't just run away from a situation. If we had in the 40's the whole world would look very different right about now.

If I were so desperate to leave a war-torn country I'd settle in the first peaceful place I could find. So how the f*ck do they end up in Sweden? Oh yeah, because they want the p*ss-easy life that the Socialist Swedish Government will offer them.

Free-loaders the lot of them, nothing more.

Self preservation.

I can understand both sides but when dead kids are getting washed up on beaches and people are using words like 'free loaders, the lot of them' it really does shine a light on the very worst side of human nature.


Edited by oldcodger (03 Sep 2015 7.35am)


There is a war going on in Syria.

I have some sympathy for women and children to an extent but what are these young men doing running away?

They should be fighting IS. Personally I doubt the worth of people who have no pride in their own country enough to not fight for it.

What about the Syrians fighting IS.....Where is the money and aid for them?

By fighting those animals they are keeping them from your door.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 7.51am)

Through our bad decision making as nations we have done more to help the ISIS of today come into being than these people who just want to get on with life. I honestly don't blame them for wanting to get out.

It takes guts to make this journey too you know. Many have died whatever decision they made. You're not in a warzone, it's easy to sit there in your comfortable existence telling people risking their lives through one way or another that you 'doubt their worth' because they don't share your outlook. What a joke.

Edited by oldcodger (03 Sep 2015 8.18am)

 

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 03 Sep 15 8.19am Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 7.50am

Quote oldcodger at 02 Sep 2015 11.06pm

Quote bright&wright at 02 Sep 2015 8.13am

A mass exodus of a country's population is not an answer. You can't just run away from a situation. If we had in the 40's the whole world would look very different right about now.

If I were so desperate to leave a war-torn country I'd settle in the first peaceful place I could find. So how the f*ck do they end up in Sweden? Oh yeah, because they want the p*ss-easy life that the Socialist Swedish Government will offer them.

Free-loaders the lot of them, nothing more.

Self preservation.

I can understand both sides but when dead kids are getting washed up on beaches and people are using words like 'free loaders, the lot of them' it really does shine a light on the very worst side of human nature.


Edited by oldcodger (03 Sep 2015 7.35am)


There is a war going on in Syria.

I have some sympathy for women and children to an extent but what are these young men doing running away?

They should be fighting IS. Personally I doubt the worth of people who have no pride in their own country enough to not fight for it.

What about the Syrians fighting IS.....Where is the money and aid for them?

By fighting those animals they are keeping them from your door.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 7.51am)


Why would they when they have the option of legging it to a cushy life somewhere else ?

Also, the pictures of the people washed up on the beech are terrible and heart rendering, that shouldn't happen to any human.

But it did. They knew the risks, at some point the migrants made a concious choice to flee their country rather than figh for it, they knew the price of staying , they knew the possible outcome of fleeing. Both choices are tough, and you obvioulsy want to do whats best for your children.

I wouldnt want to make that choice, but if I did, it would be to stay and fight, that way, my life and that of my family would be in my hands, rather than that of some "give a f***" pirate on a massivley over crowded boat.

I would also like to point out that geographically Syria is land linked to Turkey, so why aren't people travling by land ? could it be that Turkey have politley said no tah at the border forcing people to circumvent the land option.

I feel dreadful for the death of any innocent, but these people make the choice to get on these death traps, rather than stay and fight for the country, and that doesnt sit well with me. Sorry but it doesnt.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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View oldcodger's Profile oldcodger Flag 03 Sep 15 8.52am Send a Private Message to oldcodger Add oldcodger as a friend

Quote dannyh at 03 Sep 2015 8.19am

Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 7.50am

Quote oldcodger at 02 Sep 2015 11.06pm

Quote bright&wright at 02 Sep 2015 8.13am

A mass exodus of a country's population is not an answer. You can't just run away from a situation. If we had in the 40's the whole world would look very different right about now.

If I were so desperate to leave a war-torn country I'd settle in the first peaceful place I could find. So how the f*ck do they end up in Sweden? Oh yeah, because they want the p*ss-easy life that the Socialist Swedish Government will offer them.

Free-loaders the lot of them, nothing more.

Self preservation.

I can understand both sides but when dead kids are getting washed up on beaches and people are using words like 'free loaders, the lot of them' it really does shine a light on the very worst side of human nature.


Edited by oldcodger (03 Sep 2015 7.35am)


There is a war going on in Syria.

I have some sympathy for women and children to an extent but what are these young men doing running away?

They should be fighting IS. Personally I doubt the worth of people who have no pride in their own country enough to not fight for it.

What about the Syrians fighting IS.....Where is the money and aid for them?

By fighting those animals they are keeping them from your door.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 7.51am)


Why would they when they have the option of legging it to a cushy life somewhere else ?

Are they the only two options then? Fighting in war or going somewhere for a 'cushy life'. Nice choice of language. Maybe by virtue that many actually risk their lives to get here too, they want to avoid war AND work hard. Maybe that's an option.

With yours and the other blokes reply it's all about trying to debase these people so you don't have to care about them. "doubt their worth", "free loaders the lot of them", "cushy life".

 

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View ragatony's Profile ragatony Flag orpington 03 Sep 15 9.02am Send a Private Message to ragatony Add ragatony as a friend

Well Dannyh, I must admit I have been mulling it over in my head this
"fight or flee" decision. Young healthy lads a lot of these Syrians
Look when interviewed on tv. Couldn't help myself comparing them
To Brits attitude during the war.
.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 03 Sep 15 9.12am

Quote dannyh at 03 Sep 2015 8.19am

Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 7.50am

Quote oldcodger at 02 Sep 2015 11.06pm

Quote bright&wright at 02 Sep 2015 8.13am

A mass exodus of a country's population is not an answer. You can't just run away from a situation. If we had in the 40's the whole world would look very different right about now.

If I were so desperate to leave a war-torn country I'd settle in the first peaceful place I could find. So how the f*ck do they end up in Sweden? Oh yeah, because they want the p*ss-easy life that the Socialist Swedish Government will offer them.

Free-loaders the lot of them, nothing more.

Self preservation.

I can understand both sides but when dead kids are getting washed up on beaches and people are using words like 'free loaders, the lot of them' it really does shine a light on the very worst side of human nature.


Edited by oldcodger (03 Sep 2015 7.35am)


There is a war going on in Syria.

I have some sympathy for women and children to an extent but what are these young men doing running away?

They should be fighting IS. Personally I doubt the worth of people who have no pride in their own country enough to not fight for it.

What about the Syrians fighting IS.....Where is the money and aid for them?

By fighting those animals they are keeping them from your door.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 7.51am)


Why would they when they have the option of legging it to a cushy life somewhere else ?

Also, the pictures of the people washed up on the beech are terrible and heart rendering, that shouldn't happen to any human.

But it did. They knew the risks, at some point the migrants made a concious choice to flee their country rather than figh for it, they knew the price of staying , they knew the possible outcome of fleeing. Both choices are tough, and you obvioulsy want to do whats best for your children.

I wouldnt want to make that choice, but if I did, it would be to stay and fight, that way, my life and that of my family would be in my hands, rather than that of some "give a f***" pirate on a massivley over crowded boat.

I would also like to point out that geographically Syria is land linked to Turkey, so why aren't people travling by land ? could it be that Turkey have politley said no tah at the border forcing people to circumvent the land option.

I feel dreadful for the death of any innocent, but these people make the choice to get on these death traps, rather than stay and fight for the country, and that doesnt sit well with me. Sorry but it doesnt.

Currently the UNHCR is dealing with 3m Syrian refugees in Turkey, Iraq, Lebanon and Jordan (all bordering states with Syria).

As for fighting for your country, that's a difficult situation, given the logistical capacity and training required to be effective, and which side do you choose? Assad, Hezbollah, IS, Al Nusra front or the increasingly diminishing 'independent rebels'.

Plus a lot of these people are very civilian individuals and family, and given that Assad and IS aren't above just wiping out anyone who opposes them, or are related to those opposing them (or even in areas that have oppsed them), would you really risk your kids life, to fight for a murderous regime, a death cult or a doomed rebel faction.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 03 Sep 15 9.13am

Quote ragatony at 03 Sep 2015 9.02am

Well Dannyh, I must admit I have been mulling it over in my head this
"fight or flee" decision. Young healthy lads a lot of these Syrians
Look when interviewed on tv. Couldn't help myself comparing them
To Brits attitude during the war.
.

You mean the ones that we had to conscript?


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 03 Sep 15 9.17am

Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 7.50am

Quote oldcodger at 02 Sep 2015 11.06pm

Quote bright&wright at 02 Sep 2015 8.13am

A mass exodus of a country's population is not an answer. You can't just run away from a situation. If we had in the 40's the whole world would look very different right about now.

If I were so desperate to leave a war-torn country I'd settle in the first peaceful place I could find. So how the f*ck do they end up in Sweden? Oh yeah, because they want the p*ss-easy life that the Socialist Swedish Government will offer them.

Free-loaders the lot of them, nothing more.

Self preservation.

I can understand both sides but when dead kids are getting washed up on beaches and people are using words like 'free loaders, the lot of them' it really does shine a light on the very worst side of human nature.


Edited by oldcodger (03 Sep 2015 7.35am)


There is a war going on in Syria.

I have some sympathy for women and children to an extent but what are these young men doing running away?

They should be fighting IS. Personally I doubt the worth of people who have no pride in their own country enough to not fight for it.

What about the Syrians fighting IS.....Where is the money and aid for them?

By fighting those animals they are keeping them from your door.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 7.51am)

Problem with the Syrians fighting IS is that many of them are Assad loyalists or allied with the Al Nasa Front (Al-Qaeda) etc. The US believes that its only really reliable ally on the ground are the Kurdish forces, which are backed by the Kurdish state in Iraq (but also being targeted by Turkey). One of the reasons we've seen a surge in refugees is due to the gains made by those groups against the non-Islamist rebels.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View ragatony's Profile ragatony Flag orpington 03 Sep 15 9.26am Send a Private Message to ragatony Add ragatony as a friend

The Syrian army is conscripted I guess, so a lot of these lads must be deserters!
Anyway as you are most probably aware I was thinking more about attitude.

 

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leggedstruggle Flag Croydon 03 Sep 15 9.27am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 3.14pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 02 Sep 2015 1.54pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 1.21pm

What constitutes an anti-British community though?

In terms of the UK, terrorism, seems to have a history of being by people who are British (UK Born Muslims and British Irish).

Doesn't that illustrate one of the problems - born here but loyalties lay elsewhere.

Not necessarily, some of those terrorists were very pro-British.


In what sense?

 


mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 03 Sep 15 9.30am

Quote leggedstruggle at 03 Sep 2015 9.27am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 3.14pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 02 Sep 2015 1.54pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 02 Sep 2015 1.21pm

What constitutes an anti-British community though?

In terms of the UK, terrorism, seems to have a history of being by people who are British (UK Born Muslims and British Irish).

Doesn't that illustrate one of the problems - born here but loyalties lay elsewhere.

Not necessarily, some of those terrorists were very pro-British.


In what sense?

Their own sense, loyalist groups.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 03 Sep 15 9.35am

Quote ragatony at 03 Sep 2015 9.26am

The Syrian army is conscripted I guess, so a lot of these lads must be deserters!
Anyway as you are most probably aware I was thinking more about attitude.

I think its a bit different in Civil wars, than national wars. Civil wars tend towards being brutal murderous affairs rather than national conflicts. These wars tend to break down into inter-regional conflicts, so you generally have an option based on which faction is dominant in your area.

I don't really see how any of us can sit in judgment on people who flee from a war zone.

Would you really want them joining IS (who pay well, look likely to be one of the factions coming out on top, are well equipped and taken a lot of territory).

Remember people in Syria aren't just fleeing from IS


Edited by jamiemartin721 (03 Sep 2015 9.37am)

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View oldcodger's Profile oldcodger Flag 03 Sep 15 9.44am Send a Private Message to oldcodger Add oldcodger as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 9.12am

Quote dannyh at 03 Sep 2015 8.19am

Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 7.50am

Quote oldcodger at 02 Sep 2015 11.06pm

Quote bright&wright at 02 Sep 2015 8.13am

A mass exodus of a country's population is not an answer. You can't just run away from a situation. If we had in the 40's the whole world would look very different right about now.

If I were so desperate to leave a war-torn country I'd settle in the first peaceful place I could find. So how the f*ck do they end up in Sweden? Oh yeah, because they want the p*ss-easy life that the Socialist Swedish Government will offer them.

Free-loaders the lot of them, nothing more.

Self preservation.

I can understand both sides but when dead kids are getting washed up on beaches and people are using words like 'free loaders, the lot of them' it really does shine a light on the very worst side of human nature.


Edited by oldcodger (03 Sep 2015 7.35am)


There is a war going on in Syria.

I have some sympathy for women and children to an extent but what are these young men doing running away?

They should be fighting IS. Personally I doubt the worth of people who have no pride in their own country enough to not fight for it.

What about the Syrians fighting IS.....Where is the money and aid for them?

By fighting those animals they are keeping them from your door.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 7.51am)


Why would they when they have the option of legging it to a cushy life somewhere else ?

Also, the pictures of the people washed up on the beech are terrible and heart rendering, that shouldn't happen to any human.

But it did. They knew the risks, at some point the migrants made a concious choice to flee their country rather than figh for it, they knew the price of staying , they knew the possible outcome of fleeing. Both choices are tough, and you obvioulsy want to do whats best for your children.

I wouldnt want to make that choice, but if I did, it would be to stay and fight, that way, my life and that of my family would be in my hands, rather than that of some "give a f***" pirate on a massivley over crowded boat.

I would also like to point out that geographically Syria is land linked to Turkey, so why aren't people travling by land ? could it be that Turkey have politley said no tah at the border forcing people to circumvent the land option.

I feel dreadful for the death of any innocent, but these people make the choice to get on these death traps, rather than stay and fight for the country, and that doesnt sit well with me. Sorry but it doesnt.

Currently the UNHCR is dealing with 3m Syrian refugees in Turkey, Iraq, Lebanon and Jordan (all bordering states with Syria).

As for fighting for your country, that's a difficult situation, given the logistical capacity and training required to be effective, and which side do you choose? Assad, Hezbollah, IS, Al Nusra front or the increasingly diminishing 'independent rebels'.

Plus a lot of these people are very civilian individuals and family, and given that Assad and IS aren't above just wiping out anyone who opposes them, or are related to those opposing them (or even in areas that have oppsed them), would you really risk your kids life, to fight for a murderous regime, a death cult or a doomed rebel faction.


Exactly. It's hardly an 'out there' decision they're making here or one that feeds into them being written off as people. Apparently those bloviating on here know better though.

 

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