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December 12 2019 8.22am

The Brexit Thread

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 14 Nov 19 1.33pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Jway89

To be honest, I don't think he even knows what he wants to do.
The problem is that the Tories have basically been relaxed on immigration too. Why?

The neo liberal right have been in charge of the Tory party for generations.

Since Thatcher moved the economy into more of a service industry than s manufacturing one....(which was common sense, if harshly implemented)...the Tories have used immigration labour for wage suppression and increased GDP via population growth.

However, Tory immigration figures before Blair's new Labour were around 50,000 a year.....Blair enabled 300,000 a year and the Tories that came after him....did little to change it....they lied about it as much as Blair did. They both play the 'globalisation card' and pretend that it's inevitable rather than a political decision.

It's the easy method for short term results....which is what drives a democratic politician.

Long term it's a disaster.....immigrants get old too. We are twice as crowded as Germany and three times as crowded as France and we have automation coming.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Nov 2019 1.37pm)

 

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Deleted 14 Nov 19 1.37pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The neo liberal right have been in charge of the Tory party for generations.

Since Thatcher moved the economy into more of a service industry than s manufacturing one....(which was common sense, if harshly implemented)...the Tories have used immigration labour for wage suppression and increased GDP via population growth.

However, Tory immigration figures before Blair's new Labour were around 50,000 a year.....Blair enabled 300,000 a year and the Tories that came after him....did little to change it....they lied about it as much as Blair did.

It's the easy method for short term results....which is what drives a democratic politician.

Long term it's a disaster.....immigrants get old too. We are twice as crowded as Germany and three times as crowded as France and we have automation coming.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Nov 2019 1.35pm)

So, who is there to vote for to change this? Hence, there's a reason it's a parliamentary democracy and not a direct one.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 14 Nov 19 1.42pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Jway89

So, who is there to vote for to change this? Hence, there's a reason it's a parliamentary democracy and not a direct one.

It's not going to change.

Voting Tory, for a form of Brexit, is for a principle......Long term this country is completely fecked and they are all complicit.

Since 2016 EU migration has fallen but it's still net...meaning more come than go....Non EU migration has risen...and that's because of the reasons I stated previously. It's the 'no brainer' method they use for short term results.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Nov 2019 1.47pm)

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 14 Nov 19 1.50pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by Jway89

To be honest, I don't think he even knows what he wants to do.
The problem is that the Tories have basically been relaxed on immigration too. Why?

For Labour it's about getting more voters (along with allowing migrants and EU citizens to vote, reducing the voting age etc) they know it will work in their favour as immigrants will vote for more social care, free housing and benefits increases etc. That's a reality not a "right wing talking point" as you might be told by the BBC or the Guardian etc. The LibFems, SNP, Welsh, Greens etc are all socialists so go along with this.

For the Tories it's about (1) driving down the cost of labor for their big business mates but perhaps more importantly (2) Artificially keeping property prices inflated through housing shortage as the whole economy currently depends on this.

So basically, the whole lot need to go.

 

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Deleted 14 Nov 19 3.19pm

Originally posted by W12

For Labour it's about getting more voters (along with allowing migrants and EU citizens to vote, reducing the voting age etc) they know it will work in their favour as immigrants will vote for more social care, free housing and benefits increases etc. That's a reality not a "right wing talking point" as you might be told by the BBC or the Guardian etc. The LibFems, SNP, Welsh, Greens etc are all socialists so go along with this.

For the Tories it's about (1) driving down the cost of labor for their big business mates but perhaps more importantly (2) Artificially keeping property prices inflated through housing shortage as the whole economy currently depends on this.

So basically, the whole lot need to go.

To be honest, when you hear some of the arguments from Leave and Remain, it does make me wonder why the voting age isn't reduced to 4 years old.

I do think there is stuff you can do to bring about a more cohesive society, but, when you frame political discourse as if you are in an Oxbridge debating club rather than looking at basic data and information, you, imo, destroy a decent democracy.

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 14 Nov 19 3.36pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Not sure about that bit. I think Corbyn is sincere in wanting to hep the lower pay but all the while Labour have an open door immigration policy they are in conflict with each other. Basic supply and demand.

Our minimum wage is about the same as France and Germany - defence is Labours' weak suit in my view.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 14 Nov 19 4.33pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

Our minimum wage is about the same as France and Germany - defence is Labours' weak suit in my view.

Mass immigration is what everyone should be talking about.
It is slowly destroying the fabric of Britain and Europe and only benefits big business and socialist politicians.

 

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Deleted 14 Nov 19 4.39pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Mass immigration is what everyone should be talking about.
It is slowly destroying the fabric of Britain and Europe and only benefits big business and socialist politicians.

If that's the case, then it's unlikely to be talked about.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 14 Nov 19 4.42pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Jway89

If that's the case, then it's unlikely to be talked about.

Exactly.

We are wedged between greed and ambition and the left wing media are happy to support it.

 

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View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 14 Nov 19 4.52pm Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Mass immigration is what everyone should be talking about.
It is slowly destroying the fabric of Britain and Europe and only benefits big business and socialist politicians.

I think you talk about it enough for all of us.

 


Tw@tter:

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Deleted 14 Nov 19 4.57pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Exactly.

We are wedged between greed and ambition and the left wing media are happy to support it.

It's a mixture, right? I'd say 90% of mainstream newspapers are right leaning. The BBC gets slated and I would say it is left leaning, but the take home point of all this is that the arguments are always on feelings and ideologies, which basically turns into a 'you're a racist, no you're a snowflake'.

Just by reading the posts on these threads, people have a very limited understanding of how money works, thinking that austerity was absolutely necessary and comparing a country with it's own currency to Bob and Phil down the road who go to work everyday.

Now, I'm not saying they are ignorant, but what I will say is that their views are largely dictated by the literature they read, which is based on their bias and newspapers like the Daily Mail, which, in my mind is an absolute disgrace of a newspaper, feed people crap without being questioned on it.

So, if something like economics, which can be looked up and explained pretty easily isn't done right by the media, what hope do we have?

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 14 Nov 19 5.15pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Jway89

It's a mixture, right? I'd say 90% of mainstream newspapers are right leaning. The BBC gets slated and I would say it is left leaning, but the take home point of all this is that the arguments are always on feelings and ideologies, which basically turns into a 'you're a racist, no you're a snowflake'.

Just by reading the posts on these threads, people have a very limited understanding of how money works, thinking that austerity was absolutely necessary and comparing a country with it's own currency to Bob and Phil down the road who go to work everyday.

Now, I'm not saying they are ignorant, but what I will say is that their views are largely dictated by the literature they read, which is based on their bias and newspapers like the Daily Mail, which, in my mind is an absolute disgrace of a newspaper, feed people crap without being questioned on it.

So, if something like economics, which can be looked up and explained pretty easily isn't done right by the media, what hope do we have?

90%?
You have The Guardian, Mirror, Independent and Morning Star for starters, all on the left.
The influence of the written press is dwarfed by the television media which is almost exclusively left wing.

 

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