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April 29 2024 8.09am

Southern Rail Strike - right or wrong

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View tome's Profile tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 05 Dec 16 6.22pm Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

I'm just curious, but if the strike is about the potential changes, why not piss off the rail company while keeping the passengers happy by running the service but not charging for it instead of striking?

 


A one and a two...

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View 7mins's Profile 7mins Flag In the bush 05 Dec 16 6.34pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

So is there a requirement for a medical kit to be carried and does the guard have any training?

All trains have medical kits, usually in each cab. Some major stations have defibrillators

 

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View 7mins's Profile 7mins Flag In the bush 05 Dec 16 6.37pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by tome

I'm just curious, but if the strike is about the potential changes, why not piss off the rail company while keeping the passengers happy by running the service but not charging for it instead of striking?

Southern would love that for two reasons.

1. They don't receive any £ from ticket sales, they get paid a management fee from DfT (who get money from ticket sales)

2. Industrial action is legal, what you suggest isn't. Staff would be dismissed.

 

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View tome's Profile tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 05 Dec 16 6.44pm Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

Originally posted by 7mins

Southern would love that for two reasons.

1. They don't receive any £ from ticket sales, they get paid a management fee from DfT (who get money from ticket sales)

2. Industrial action is legal, what you suggest isn't. Staff would be dismissed.

Interesting. Why wouldn't what I suggest be classified as industrial action?

Seems that the strike is partly against the DFT anyway, if what you say about them wanting to bust the unions is true.

 


A one and a two...

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View 7mins's Profile 7mins Flag In the bush 05 Dec 16 7.02pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by tome

Interesting. Why wouldn't what I suggest be classified as industrial action?

Seems that the strike is partly against the DFT anyway, if what you say about them wanting to bust the unions is true.

You're allowed to withdraw your labour. You're not allowed to be complicit in defrauding your company of income

 

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View tome's Profile tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 05 Dec 16 7.46pm Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

Originally posted by 7mins

You're allowed to withdraw your labour. You're not allowed to be complicit in defrauding your company of income

So what happens if the people manning the ticket barriers and machines 'withdraw their labour'?

 


A one and a two...

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View 7mins's Profile 7mins Flag In the bush 05 Dec 16 8.01pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by tome

So what happens if the people manning the ticket barriers and machines 'withdraw their labour'?

The company would most probably leave barriers open at smaller stations, and hire agency staff for larger stations

 

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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 9.02am

Originally posted by 7mins

My dear hoof.

Those silly acronyms are important safety procedures related to protecting failed trains in emergency. Now, you can clearly see why I treat your argument that guards are obsolete when you don't know what they are trained to do, with contempt. I'm sorry it offends old boy... but (on this) subject you don't hold the required knowledge to have a informed point of view.

The worry isn't about train dispatch (so much) it's about out of normal working arrangements, train evacuation (emergency and controlled), emergency and assistance protection of a failed train, derailment and train collision (99% of times driver will be dead or injured) also current isolation.

The guard also dispatches trains from rear cab, this allows them to keep a eye on the platform as the train leaves, should anyone fall/stumble they have the ability to stop the train. If they're inside the train, they can give the driver "one on the bell" which tells him to perform a emergency stop.

Trams aren't my area of expertise, but I would imagine the ability to fit TPWS (Train Protection Warning System) on public roads would prove difficult.

Hoof... there is no polite way of saying this... but you genuinely don't know what you're speaking about. Sincere apologies if this hurts ya ego... but being old doesn't make you a expert.

X

Its clear to me now why the Rail Industry is in such turmoil if you are an example of it's workforce.

Your communication skills are like that of a child, not prepared to listen and doing what you like, having tantrums.

Being old doesn't make you an expert but it teaches you to listen to more than one side of the story and not dismiss any opinion... even yours!

I have done further research on this matter and have established that the Independent Rail Inspectorate have actually signed off Southern Rail's intention to run driver only operated trains as entirely safe and satisfactory.

Furthermore Transport Minister Chris Grayling confirmed that fact this morning on R4 Today Programme and also confirmed that no one is losing their job or suffering a cut in pay.

So it seems, you and RMT Union are falsely promoting passenger safety as a barrier to progress which has been independently assessed and given the thumbs up. As Tim said above, the strike is illegitimate and causing unnecessary suffering to Southern Rail passengers... some of whom have lost their jobs for reporting late to work.

So, as I said all along, you were talking bollocks and in actual fact it is you that is the "moron" and akin to "the thicko down the pub".

After all... what kind of moron would side with a Union and not listen to an Independent Inspectorate about safety?

Anyway... now we've established that it is of benefit to listen to old people I will make further relevant comment...

I don't know if you are old enough to remember the Zeebrugge Harbour disaster involving the Car Transporter Ship "Herald of Free Enterprise" which sunk in 1987 because the bow doors weren't shut before it set sail. That was caused by confusion as to who was primarily responsible for closing the doors. The Inquiry concluded that it was safer to make the captain responsible, ie the driver.

I would also remind you yet again that many railways, light railways, London Underground and city trams operate driver only systems that do not require Guards to open and close the doors and have done for decades safely.

Finally, I would suggest that the Rail Industry needs a complete overhaul to try and match the efficiency and safety of the rail systems operated in Japan and Switzerland which everyone knows are the best in the world.

Our system is beset with problems, made worse by Union interference and often cost cutting and greed by private companies as well as weak government control.

As it is now customary to sign off with a cheery disposition......

Enjoy your day at School little boy...
X

Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Dec 2016 9.03am)

 

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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 9.11am

Originally posted by Kermit8

Time to pull up your trousers now, Hoofy old chap, and back away slowly. That was onehelluva spanking

Edited by Kermit8 (05 Dec 2016 5.00pm)

A mere parry that I was able to deflect and deal with cooly... Kermit.

You see the truth is I do know what I'm talking about.

 

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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 9.13am

Originally posted by steeleye20

I am interested to know what medical kit/training a guard is required to have ...H is only 50

I'm actually 62 Japseye.

I've told you that before, but you don't pay attention.

 

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 06 Dec 16 9.17am Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

One of the problems with unions playing the safety card is that it has almost become their default position so if and when there are legitimate concerns, they are largely ignored. Boy who cried wolf and all that......

For example, this morning the news that operators and NR to work as joint management teams was greeted with the default, we have concerns about safety. At least spend time looking into how it would work and even contribute before just defaulting to the standard line of objection

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 9.21am

Originally posted by 7mins

Guards are trained to apply SCB, a device that shorts out the electric current on the 3rd rail (quickest way of cutting juice in emergency)

Guards are trained to use TCOC (track circuit operating clips) quickest way of turning signals to red when can't contact signaller. This will stop a derailed train on the down line being hit by a passing train on the up line.

Guards are trained to lay detonators. Small explosives placed on the running line to stop a train in emergency. Also used as a marker when a failed train is being assisted.

Guards can contact ECO to get current switched off

Guards are also trained in emergency and controlled evacuation.


^ that's all I can remember, I'm sure there's more.


Or if you believe hoof... they check tickets.

Most of the fat lazy plonkers I've encountered on my travels aren't even capable of checking tickets or holding polite conversations with their customers!

I'm not saying there isn't a place for more safety procedures but the traditional guards role is redundant and overall control of the train should be with the driver who operates the doors as signed off and agreed by the Independent Rail Inspectorate. Southern Rail are not cutting staff so Guards will have to accept new roles and responsibilities in the name of progress. The Unions should just butt out.

 

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