Southern Rail Strike - right or wrong
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 gambler  Kent 04 Dec 16 11.15am |
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| gambler Kent 04 Dec 16 11.16am |
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| gambler Kent 04 Dec 16 11.19am |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
Why is it that I and millions like me get on the tube every day which is DOO and it works like clockwork with no safety issues about the doors opening and closing? When I was a very young lad in the 60's I used to get the BR train from Carshalton to Sutton and the grown ups let me open the door myself, get on board and shut it myself. The Guard stood at the back of the train with a green flag and a whistle. He made no attempt to help anyone.... he just waved his flag and blew his whistle when all the doors were shut. Safety my arse.... this is just blatant job protectionism nothing more nothing less... just like the opposition to removing ticket offices to replace them with more efficient ticket machines. Stop talking bollocks man. Yes slam door trains. And no one standing on the platform ever got wiped out by some prick opening the door while the train was still moving did they? No one ever fell out of the train while it was moving because they were fiddling with the doors did they? No one ever got decapitated because they leaned out of the windows on a moving train did they?
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| Hoof Hearted 04 Dec 16 11.24am | |
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Originally posted by gambler
Yes slam door trains. And no one standing on the platform ever got wiped out by some prick opening the door while the train was still moving did they? No one ever fell out of the train while it was moving because they were fiddling with the doors did they? No one ever got decapitated because they leaned out of the windows on a moving train did they? That was the 60's. You have proved my point - A guard is as much use as balls on the Pope. We now have a system that actually closes the doors and ensures that they stay shut. They don't rely on some fat 55 year old w*nker in a uniform with shiny arsed trousers and egg down his tie to "oversee" matters from his Guards van (whereas we all knew he was doing fcuk all! ). And as for your examples above.... how would the Guard have spotted these and dealt with them? He wouldn't have. Edited by Hoof Hearted (04 Dec 2016 11.31am)
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| gambler Kent 04 Dec 16 11.30am |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
That was the 60's. You have proved my point - A guard is as much use as balls on the Pope. We now have a system that actually closes the doors and ensures that they stay shut. They don't rely on some fat 55 year old w*nker in a uniform with shiny arsed trousers and egg down his tie to "oversee" matters from his Guards van (whereas we all knew he was doing fcuk all! ). I think the point is that joe public don't always do as they should. Refer to my three other posts with links. Not saying D.O.O. is necessarily not workable, but its definitely not as safe as it should be. My own opinion is that the correlation between the amount of money to be saved in wages, against the amount of money paid out in compensation for injuries and deaths needs to be looked at. Surely the public should not accept any deaths or injuries? Obviously for the companies and government so long as the amount of compensation paid is below the amount of wages saved then they will be happy. *Edit - sorry just seen that you've referred to the links. Edited by gambler (04 Dec 2016 11.32am)
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| Hoof Hearted 04 Dec 16 11.36am | |
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Originally posted by gambler
I think the point is that joe public don't always do as they should. Refer to my three other posts with links. Not saying D.O.O. is necessarily not workable, but its definitely not as safe as it should be. My own opinion is that the correlation between the amount of money to be saved in wages, against the amount of money paid out in compensation for injuries and deaths needs to be looked at. Surely the public should not accept any deaths or injuries? Obviously for the companies and government so long as the amount of compensation paid is below the amount of wages saved then they will be happy. I did and amended my post. Guards on board a train would not have seen those incidents any more than the Driver would have. Station staff on the platform should have seen those incidents and alerted the driver - but you are right the public are unpredictable, impatient and stupid and dangerous to one another at times. But I repeat, putting a Guard onboard for safety reasons is not required.
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| gambler Kent 04 Dec 16 11.45am |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
I did and amended my post. Guards on board a train would not have seen those incidents any more than the Driver would have. Station staff on the platform should have seen those incidents and alerted the driver - but you are right the public are unpredictable, impatient and stupid and dangerous to one another at times. But I repeat, putting a Guard onboard for safety reasons is not required. Yes sorry I edited when I noticed. Not all the locations would have platform staff. And a guard wold be looking directly at the side of the train rather than the driver looking at crappy Cctv. The thing is its not as simple as you hate the unions so they must be wrong or taking the piss, or someone else supports unions so the company are c***s. In this case a fair proportion of passengers support the workers side of the argument, although rightly by this stage they are severely pissed off with everyone for f***ing their daily lives up.
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| 7mins In the bush 04 Dec 16 12.02pm |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
Why is it that I and millions like me get on the tube every day which is DOO and it works like clockwork with no safety issues about the doors opening and closing? When I was a very young lad in the 60's I used to get the BR train from Carshalton to Sutton and the grown ups let me open the door myself, get on board and shut it myself. The Guard stood at the back of the train with a green flag and a whistle. He made no attempt to help anyone.... he just waved his flag and blew his whistle when all the doors were shut. Safety my arse.... this is just blatant job protectionism nothing more nothing less... just like the opposition to removing ticket offices to replace them with more efficient ticket machines. Stop talking bollocks man. Stop taking your own experiences and extrapolating that to determine health and safety regulation for a massive and complex industry. Makes you look like the thicko down the pub.
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| 7mins In the bush 04 Dec 16 12.05pm |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
That was the 60's. You have proved my point - A guard is as much use as balls on the Pope. We now have a system that actually closes the doors and ensures that they stay shut. They don't rely on some fat 55 year old w*nker in a uniform with shiny arsed trousers and egg down his tie to "oversee" matters from his Guards van (whereas we all knew he was doing fcuk all! ). And as for your examples above.... how would the Guard have spotted these and dealt with them? He wouldn't have. Edited by Hoof Hearted (04 Dec 2016 11.31am) You seem very informed on the guards role, can you give me your thoughts on taking TCOC, SCB training away from them? Cos RSSB had concerns?
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| Hoof Hearted 04 Dec 16 12.44pm | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
You seem very informed on the guards role, can you give me your thoughts on taking TCOC, SCB training away from them? Cos RSSB had concerns? Yes 7 mins.... that comes about from 56 years of travelling. Never mind all those initials.....you need to remember KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. Expect the public to do something stupid, don't react after they've done it. The Croydon tram disaster came about because no one anticipated the driver taking that bend too fast and building in safeguards to stop him. having a Guard on board wouldn't have prevented that happening, but a better safety operation system would have. Calling someone a Guard doesn't make him/her a safety expert. As I said above, the Guard would not have prevented those incidents with trapped bags/coats etc. You need to educate the public, putting up warning signs, reminding them to stay behind safety lines etc etc. BUt more importantly, build in safety features that prevent accidents happening and don't just rely on the vigilance of one man calling him a guard or whatever fancy title the RMT want.
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| Hoof Hearted 04 Dec 16 12.48pm | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
Stop taking your own experiences and extrapolating that to determine health and safety regulation for a massive and complex industry. Makes you look like the thicko down the pub. And your responses so far using silly acronyms to big yourself up just makes you look like the bog cleaner in the pub pretending to be the landlord. I can be just as insulting as you can if I want to be.
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| Hoof Hearted 04 Dec 16 12.53pm | |
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Originally posted by gambler
Yes sorry I edited when I noticed. Not all the locations would have platform staff. And a guard wold be looking directly at the side of the train rather than the driver looking at crappy Cctv. The thing is its not as simple as you hate the unions so they must be wrong or taking the piss, or someone else supports unions so the company are c***s. In this case a fair proportion of passengers support the workers side of the argument, although rightly by this stage they are severely pissed off with everyone for f***ing their daily lives up. I don't hate the unions, but its obvious they are paid to protect jobs. The Miners union, the the wheeltappers union... they tried to preserve jobs in industries where technology etc had made their jobs redundant... you don't get many people developing films these days due to digital cameras. The Guards job is redundant. There are better ways to promote safety on board trains and outside of them.
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