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March 25 2023 10.27am

If a manager plays Kelly and Ward as fullbacks

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View VKR1888's Profile VKR1888 Flag London 20 Dec 16 4.36pm Send a Private Message to VKR1888 Add VKR1888 as a friend

Stopped reading at the Gayle part. Never good enough at this level. Trying to use that as part of the argument renders the rest not worthy of reading!

 

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View bexleydave's Profile bexleydave Flag Barnehurst 20 Dec 16 4.46pm Send a Private Message to bexleydave Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add bexleydave as a friend

Originally posted by VKR1888

Stopped reading at the Gayle part. Never good enough at this level. Trying to use that as part of the argument renders the rest not worthy of reading!


Which is what everyone else needs to do. This should be in Away Fans for a start and why we're giving so much of our time to , what I suspect, is either a Geordie troll or a Weed windup merchant is beyond me. Just ignore him and he'll go away.

 


Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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View ThatPetrolRelation's Profile ThatPetrolRelation Flag Ottawa 20 Dec 16 4.48pm Send a Private Message to ThatPetrolRelation Add ThatPetrolRelation as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo


HOW DID HE NOT MAKE MOST OF THEM??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Read the stats from transfermarkt.com

What would you have wanted him to do?
Statistics don't lie. He was the best English striker after Vardy, Kane, Rooney, Sturridge and Wellbeck, who are all in the national team.

What did he need to do to get recognition?

Well he seemed to have a pattern of scoring as a sub, then getting a start and doing zilch. So back to the bench he would go. He didn't cut it as a lone striker, so under Pulis, Warnock, Pardew he sat. He also seemed to get injured a lot (but then what Palace player doesn't I guess).

I remember him scoring piles in cup games against weak sides. I like the guy, and am not surprised he's doing well against much weaker competition. But like Murray, in the Prem, when there was a lot less space, and faster, bigger CBs, he had a much harder time affecting the game.

His stats are good, but they are small sample size.
When Gayle starts 25 Prem games, and gets 15 goals, then he'll be able to show he's quality.


Edited by ThatPetrolRelation (20 Dec 2016 4.50pm)

 

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View mattteo's Profile mattteo Flag 20 Dec 16 5.12pm Send a Private Message to mattteo Add mattteo as a friend

Originally posted by ThatPetrolRelation


His stats are good, but they are small sample size.
When Gayle starts 25 Prem games, and gets 15 goals, then he'll be able to show he's quality.


Edited by ThatPetrolRelation (20 Dec 2016 4.50pm)


It's not about starts. It's about minutes. He's had the best goals to minutes played ratio in the PL after: Aguero, Diego Costa, Alexis Sanchez, Walcott, Kane, Vardy, Sturridge, Firmino, Lukaku, Bony, Rooney, Ighalo and that's pretty much all. He's tied with Benteke behind them. That's a pretty impressive company

 

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View mattteo's Profile mattteo Flag 20 Dec 16 5.14pm Send a Private Message to mattteo Add mattteo as a friend

Originally posted by bexleydave


Which is what everyone else needs to do. This should be in Away Fans for a start and why we're giving so much of our time to , what I suspect, is either a Geordie troll or a Weed windup merchant is beyond me. Just ignore him and he'll go away.

Bite me, Dave. You're the troll. You speak of me like you're some kind of Crystal Palace "born on the stadium" fan

 

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View ThatPetrolRelation's Profile ThatPetrolRelation Flag Ottawa 20 Dec 16 8.37pm Send a Private Message to ThatPetrolRelation Add ThatPetrolRelation as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo


It's not about starts. It's about minutes. He's had the best goals to minutes played ratio in the PL after: Aguero, Diego Costa, Alexis Sanchez, Walcott, Kane, Vardy, Sturridge, Firmino, Lukaku, Bony, Rooney, Ighalo and that's pretty much all. He's tied with Benteke behind them. That's a pretty impressive company

Well managers need strikers who can play whole games. He has good numbers per minute, but sorry, I'd take everyone on your list before Gayle. I wanted him to do well last season, but he didn't. 3 Prem goals in 16. I know he was injured a lot, but the narrative on why we sucked second half of last season was our strikers could not score.

Season before that 5 goals in 29 games. Forgive me for not being excited --MacArthur already has 5 this year.

Something like 5 Palace managers ran the rule over him and decided that while he was a great natural goal scorer, the rest of his game was wanting. All the best to him in the Championship.


 

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View Elpis's Profile Elpis Flag In a pub 20 Dec 16 9.15pm Send a Private Message to Elpis Add Elpis as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo


Kelly stands at 1,91. He is not a full back. He can't cross, he isn't fast enough and he has only provided 2 assists in 5.000 Premier League minutes in his entire career.
The man is a center back, he started off as such at Huddersfield Town and was only made to play as a right back by Kenny Daglish (who didn't turn up to be the best manager)

Ward and Souare haven't had 2 crosses turned into assists in a PL season SINCE EVER either!!

Whatever Kelly's history isn't the point ,where we are now is what matters and that is that Kelly is used as a full back and he is better than anything else at the club bar Ward of current fit players .
Assists though helpful can sometimes say more about those you are trying to assist than yourself . Defending though is the prime attribute not assisting

 

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View mattteo's Profile mattteo Flag 21 Dec 16 10.25am Send a Private Message to mattteo Add mattteo as a friend

Originally posted by ThatPetrolRelation

Well managers need strikers who can play whole games. He has good numbers per minute, but sorry, I'd take everyone on your list before Gayle. I wanted him to do well last season, but he didn't. 3 Prem goals in 16. I know he was injured a lot, but the narrative on why we sucked second half of last season was our strikers could not score.

Season before that 5 goals in 29 games. Forgive me for not being excited --MacArthur already has 5 this year.

Something like 5 Palace managers ran the rule over him and decided that while he was a great natural goal scorer, the rest of his game was wanting. All the best to him in the Championship.


Gayle was similar to Chicharito and Wellbeck a t United. He seems to have played many games. But, in truth, the manager only sent him in a few minutes. Therefore, what do we count?
The number of games or the number of minutes of all the players involved?
I'm going with the number of minutes. Some might think that it'a easier to score if you come in near the end, when everyone is tired, but it's not. Players need consistency, they can't reach that if they play only 10 minutes every game. So it's just as hard for a sub as it is for a starter.

Keeping in mind ONLY THE MINUTES, Gayle was awesome for a mid table team like Palace.
Likewise, Chicharito was awesome for Man Utd. His ratio was I think the best in the league. For every 100 minutes or even less the guy had at least 1 goal or 1 assist.

Yet, Utd's manager never made him a starter. Did he not cement himself? Was he not good enough? No. He was and beyond. It's just that the manager insisted with someone else. His faith was given to another player. Unjustified, unfair, but managers do that. Bad managers. And there is a plethora of them.
Chicharito suffered the same at Real. But then he went to Germany and rocked! He is one of the best 5 strikers in the league and many major Premier League teams want him back. He proved himself.
Though, may I say, he had always proven himself in the little minutes he had. He just wasn't appreciated.

And Gayle's and Chicharito's styles are very similar: hard working, kind of average height strikers, very fast, not amazingly technically but all heart.

Loosing Gayle wasn't Palace's only mistake in the last seasons. There were more though:

1. Puncheon was a great player 2-6 years ago, he was a contender for the England shirt. He should have been selected the entire 2014/25 campaign. Do you know what position Puncheon played when he was that good? He was a winger. Either on the left or on the right.
He's been rubbish the last 2 years, mainly since he started playing in the center. Having a left footed winger brings you points. The left foot brings you either goals or assists. Leicester won the Championship with this.

Puncheon stats:
12/13- 11 goals and assists combined in 2.000 minutes
13/14- 11 goals and assists combined in 2.500 minutes
14/15- 13 goals and assists combined in 2.800 minutes
15/16- 5 goals and assists combined in 2.600 minutes
16/17- 3 goals and assists combined in 1.200 minutes


Not seeing the potential in Tom Ince at the end of the 14/15 season, when you could have taken him on a free, lost you another great left footed winger. He's now probably the best player winger in the Championship, definitely Premier League material and still young.
Though, I can't attribute that to Pardew, as he wasn't in the club at that time.

2. Still, Crystal has 3 left footed wingers: Townsend, Puncheon and Sakho. I like all 3 of them, but Townsend's pace is something special.
But, for God's sake, at least use 1 of them as LEFT WING.

Only Puncheon is technically gifted enough to play as inverted winger.
But Townsend and Zaha are not. They're just simple, plain , pacy wingers.
In the end of the Chelsea game, Pardew screwed up everything. Palace was trying to get back one goal and he sent in Townsend on the right and moved Zaha on the left.
He killed them both with this move!!!! Palace didn;t have at least an opportunity in the last minutes. No chances were created. And we all just wanted to see something!

3. There's the fullback issue. Honestly, the best thing right now would be to use Lee as right back in the matches against low half sides, while Ward could be used in matches vs top 6 teams. On the left, keep one of Souare (sell him while he still has value, I'm not impressed by him) or Fryers and get an offensive left back, fast!!
Although, the team would pretty much need 4 new fullbacks if we say the truth.


It's just that Pardew is not good. If you make an analysis you realize that. That's all I'm saying. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm not. But I've been saying things since Chicharito wasn't used at United.
I was right about Coutinho at Inter, Vidal at Leverkusen, Bale was a left back at Tottenham (ok, everyone could see that guy), di Maria at United, de Bruyne at Chelsea, Rose at Tottenham (when Pochettino wanted to ditch him), Gameiro at Sevilla (when he was NOT playing because of Carlos Bacca), Immobile who wasn't given time at Borussia or Sevilla and pretty much EVERYTHING I've said in the past 10 years.

Because I understand this game, I know things other people don't, I can see them in advance. Now I'm rambling, but if you want or don't want to believe me, it's up to you.

Edited by mattteo (21 Dec 2016 10.29am)

 

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View OldFella's Profile OldFella Flag London 21 Dec 16 10.36am Send a Private Message to OldFella Add OldFella as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo

Gayle was similar to Chicharito and Wellbeck a t United. He seems to have played many games. But, in truth, the manager only sent him in a few minutes. Therefore, what do we count?
The number of games or the number of minutes of all the players involved?
I'm going with the number of minutes. Some might think that it'a easier to score if you come in near the end, when everyone is tired, but it's not. Players need consistency, they can't reach that if they play only 10 minutes every game. So it's just as hard for a sub as it is for a starter.

Keeping in mind ONLY THE MINUTES, Gayle was awesome for a mid table team like Palace.
Likewise, Chicharito was awesome for Man Utd. His ratio was I think the best in the league. For every 100 minutes or even less the guy had at least 1 goal or 1 assist.

Yet, Utd's manager never made him a starter. Did he not cement himself? Was he not good enough? No. He was and beyond. It's just that the manager insisted with someone else. His faith was given to another player. Unjustified, unfair, but managers do that. Bad managers. And there is a plethora of them.
Chicharito suffered the same at Real. But then he went to Germany and rocked! He is one of the best 5 strikers in the league and many major Premier League teams want him back. He proved himself.
Though, may I say, he had always proven himself in the little minutes he had. He just wasn't appreciated.

And Gayle's and Chicharito's styles are very similar: hard working, kind of average height strikers, very fast, not amazingly technically but all heart.

Loosing Gayle wasn't Palace's only mistake in the last seasons. There were more though:

1. Puncheon was a great player 2-6 years ago, he was a contender for the England shirt. He should have been selected the entire 2014/25 campaign. Do you know what position Puncheon played when he was that good? He was a winger. Either on the left or on the right.
He's been rubbish the last 2 years, mainly since he started playing in the center. Having a left footed winger brings you points. The left foot brings you either goals or assists. Leicester won the Championship with this.

Puncheon stats:
12/13- 11 goals and assists combined in 2.000 minutes
13/14- 11 goals and assists combined in 2.500 minutes
14/15- 13 goals and assists combined in 2.800 minutes
15/16- 5 goals and assists combined in 2.600 minutes
16/17- 3 goals and assists combined in 1.200 minutes


Not seeing the potential in Tom Ince at the end of the 14/15 season, when you could have taken him on a free, lost you another great left footed winger. He's now probably the best player winger in the Championship, definitely Premier League material and still young.
Though, I can't attribute that to Pardew, as he wasn't in the club at that time.

2. Still, Crystal has 3 left footed wingers: Townsend, Puncheon and Sakho. I like all 3 of them, but Townsend's pace is something special.
But, for God's sake, at least use 1 of them as LEFT WING.

Only Puncheon is technically gifted enough to play as inverted winger.
But Townsend and Zaha are not. They're just simple, plain , pacy wingers.
In the end of the Chelsea game, Pardew screwed up everything. Palace was trying to get back one goal and he sent in Townsend on the right and moved Zaha on the left.
He killed them both with this move!!!! Palace didn;t have at least an opportunity in the last minutes. No chances were created. And we all just wanted to see something!

3. There's the fullback issue. Honestly, the best thing right now would be to use Lee as right back in the matches against low half sides, while Ward could be used in matches vs top 6 teams. On the left, keep one of Souare (sell him while he still has value, I'm not impressed by him) or Fryers and get an offensive left back, fast!!
Although, the team would pretty much need 4 new fullbacks if we say the truth.


It's just that Pardew is not good. If you make an analysis you realize that. That's all I'm saying. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm not. But I've been saying things since Chicharito wasn't used at United.
I was right about Coutinho at Inter, Vidal at Leverkusen, Bale was a left back at Tottenham (ok, everyone could see that guy), di Maria at United, de Bruyne at Chelsea, Rose at Tottenham (when Pochettino wanted to ditch him), Gameiro at Sevilla (when he was NOT playing because of Carlos Bacca), Immobile who wasn't given time at Borussia or Sevilla and pretty much EVERYTHING I've said in the past 10 years.

Because I understand this game, I know things other people don't, I can see them in advance. Now I'm rambling, but if you want or don't want to believe me, it's up to you.

Edited by mattteo (21 Dec 2016 10.29am)

What a plonker you really are, Rodney...

 


Jackson.. Wan Bissaka.... Sansom.. Nicholas.. Cannon.. Guehi.... Zaha... Thomas.. Byrne... Holton.. Rogers.. that should do it..

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View spartakev2's Profile spartakev2 Flag Anerley 21 Dec 16 12.04pm Send a Private Message to spartakev2 Add spartakev2 as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo

Gayle was similar to Chicharito and Wellbeck a t United. He seems to have played many games. But, in truth, the manager only sent him in a few minutes. Therefore, what do we count?
The number of games or the number of minutes of all the players involved?
I'm going with the number of minutes. Some might think that it'a easier to score if you come in near the end, when everyone is tired, but it's not. Players need consistency, they can't reach that if they play only 10 minutes every game. So it's just as hard for a sub as it is for a starter.

Keeping in mind ONLY THE MINUTES, Gayle was awesome for a mid table team like Palace.
Likewise, Chicharito was awesome for Man Utd. His ratio was I think the best in the league. For every 100 minutes or even less the guy had at least 1 goal or 1 assist.

Yet, Utd's manager never made him a starter. Did he not cement himself? Was he not good enough? No. He was and beyond. It's just that the manager insisted with someone else. His faith was given to another player. Unjustified, unfair, but managers do that. Bad managers. And there is a plethora of them.
Chicharito suffered the same at Real. But then he went to Germany and rocked! He is one of the best 5 strikers in the league and many major Premier League teams want him back. He proved himself.
Though, may I say, he had always proven himself in the little minutes he had. He just wasn't appreciated.

And Gayle's and Chicharito's styles are very similar: hard working, kind of average height strikers, very fast, not amazingly technically but all heart.

Loosing Gayle wasn't Palace's only mistake in the last seasons. There were more though:

1. Puncheon was a great player 2-6 years ago, he was a contender for the England shirt. He should have been selected the entire 2014/25 campaign. Do you know what position Puncheon played when he was that good? He was a winger. Either on the left or on the right.
He's been rubbish the last 2 years, mainly since he started playing in the center. Having a left footed winger brings you points. The left foot brings you either goals or assists. Leicester won the Championship with this.

Puncheon stats:
12/13- 11 goals and assists combined in 2.000 minutes
13/14- 11 goals and assists combined in 2.500 minutes
14/15- 13 goals and assists combined in 2.800 minutes
15/16- 5 goals and assists combined in 2.600 minutes
16/17- 3 goals and assists combined in 1.200 minutes


Not seeing the potential in Tom Ince at the end of the 14/15 season, when you could have taken him on a free, lost you another great left footed winger. He's now probably the best player winger in the Championship, definitely Premier League material and still young.
Though, I can't attribute that to Pardew, as he wasn't in the club at that time.

2. Still, Crystal has 3 left footed wingers: Townsend, Puncheon and Sakho. I like all 3 of them, but Townsend's pace is something special.
But, for God's sake, at least use 1 of them as LEFT WING.

Only Puncheon is technically gifted enough to play as inverted winger.
But Townsend and Zaha are not. They're just simple, plain , pacy wingers.
In the end of the Chelsea game, Pardew screwed up everything. Palace was trying to get back one goal and he sent in Townsend on the right and moved Zaha on the left.
He killed them both with this move!!!! Palace didn;t have at least an opportunity in the last minutes. No chances were created. And we all just wanted to see something!

3. There's the fullback issue. Honestly, the best thing right now would be to use Lee as right back in the matches against low half sides, while Ward could be used in matches vs top 6 teams. On the left, keep one of Souare (sell him while he still has value, I'm not impressed by him) or Fryers and get an offensive left back, fast!!
Although, the team would pretty much need 4 new fullbacks if we say the truth.


It's just that Pardew is not good. If you make an analysis you realize that. That's all I'm saying. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm not. But I've been saying things since Chicharito wasn't used at United.
I was right about Coutinho at Inter, Vidal at Leverkusen, Bale was a left back at Tottenham (ok, everyone could see that guy), di Maria at United, de Bruyne at Chelsea, Rose at Tottenham (when Pochettino wanted to ditch him), Gameiro at Sevilla (when he was NOT playing because of Carlos Bacca), Immobile who wasn't given time at Borussia or Sevilla and pretty much EVERYTHING I've said in the past 10 years.

Because I understand this game, I know things other people don't, I can see them in advance. Now I'm rambling, but if you want or don't want to believe me, it's up to you.

Edited by mattteo (21 Dec 2016 10.29am)

Ha ha ha, this is a windup, right?

 

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View I'mPalace Till I Die's Profile I'mPalace Till I Die Flag 21 Dec 16 1.36pm Send a Private Message to I'mPalace Till I Die Add I'mPalace Till I Die as a friend

Is it not obvious that mattteo (matt the troll) is a bitter Newcastle fan with an agenda. Thinks Pardew is rubbish, loved a former Newcastle player Townsend and has a strange man crush obsession with Gayle because he's banging in goals in the lower league where he has found his level

 

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View NickinOX's Profile NickinOX Flag Sailing country. 21 Dec 16 1.38pm Send a Private Message to NickinOX Add NickinOX as a friend

Originally posted by spartakev2

Ha ha ha, this is a windup, right?

Either that, or he's living in his Gran's cellar after his parents kicked him out.

 


If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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