The lovely SNP

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topcat Holmesdale / Surbiton 01 Mar 17 2.33pm
SNP Fighting not to be governed by anyone else. Apart from Europe. It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
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topcat

Holmesdale / Surbiton 01 Mar 17 2.33pm

SNP
Fighting not to be governed by anyone else. Apart from Europe.

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

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Stirlingsays Online 01 Mar 17 2.34pm
Originally posted by Sedlescombe They would be happy to oblige. I might even join them....if they can work out an economic policy which stuffed them last time Yeah yeah, you are going nowhere. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

01 Mar 17 2.34pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

They would be happy to oblige. I might even join them....if they can work out an economic policy which stuffed them last time

Yeah yeah, you are going nowhere.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 01 Mar 17 2.39pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 So it's ok to be a nationalist as long as you are not an English or British nationalist? Not what I said. I like some of the Scottish Nationalists policies regarding prescriptions and tuition fees (for example). But effectively trying to reduce millions of people to fit into an effective narrow category based around flags and geography is absurd. I generally don't like English nationalist parties because their policies tend to be about why other groups of people are the problem (Such as the EU, Immigrants etc) rather than actual policies aimed at giving back to the people. But in truth, I find nationalism to be about as sensible as phrenology as a methodology for determining right from wrong or ethical decisions. British nationalism, in my experience, is about hollow gestures and far right wing agendas, not about what it can actually do for the British People (such as free prescriptions, free tuition etc). So yes, I prefer the SNP to the BNP, BF, EDL, UKIP (who aren't far right), but regard the base premis of nationalism as absurdly outdated and belonging to an era of imperial nonsense. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 01 Mar 17 2.39pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

So it's ok to be a nationalist as long as you are not an English or British nationalist?

Not what I said.

I like some of the Scottish Nationalists policies regarding prescriptions and tuition fees (for example). But effectively trying to reduce millions of people to fit into an effective narrow category based around flags and geography is absurd.

I generally don't like English nationalist parties because their policies tend to be about why other groups of people are the problem (Such as the EU, Immigrants etc) rather than actual policies aimed at giving back to the people.

But in truth, I find nationalism to be about as sensible as phrenology as a methodology for determining right from wrong or ethical decisions.

British nationalism, in my experience, is about hollow gestures and far right wing agendas, not about what it can actually do for the British People (such as free prescriptions, free tuition etc).

So yes, I prefer the SNP to the BNP, BF, EDL, UKIP (who aren't far right), but regard the base premis of nationalism as absurdly outdated and belonging to an era of imperial nonsense.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 01 Mar 17 2.42pm
Originally posted by topcat SNP Fighting not to be governed by anyone else. Apart from Europe. The actual amount of governing of countries done by the EU is very minimal outside of trade, even if I don't agree with that aspect of it. Of course, I wouldn't preclude legislation from the EU just on the basis its from the EU either. Even a broken clock will tell the right time twice a day. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 01 Mar 17 2.42pm

Originally posted by topcat

SNP
Fighting not to be governed by anyone else. Apart from Europe.

The actual amount of governing of countries done by the EU is very minimal outside of trade, even if I don't agree with that aspect of it.

Of course, I wouldn't preclude legislation from the EU just on the basis its from the EU either. Even a broken clock will tell the right time twice a day.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 01 Mar 17 2.46pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays How can you be a British nationalist? It's a union of nations, not a nation itself. That said, I suppose it's easy to look beyond that. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Mar 2017 2.19pm) Well Britain First and the British National Party both claim to be nationalist parties about British interests. Of course they're a party of 'neo-Nazi wannabes' who lack sense, intelligence and style of the Third Reich. It's hard to take fascists even the fascists like who can't look well turned out. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 01 Mar 17 2.46pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

How can you be a British nationalist? It's a union of nations, not a nation itself.

That said, I suppose it's easy to look beyond that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Mar 2017 2.19pm)

Well Britain First and the British National Party both claim to be nationalist parties about British interests.

Of course they're a party of 'neo-Nazi wannabes' who lack sense, intelligence and style of the Third Reich. It's hard to take fascists even the fascists like who can't look well turned out.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 01 Mar 17 3.00pm
Originally posted by Sedlescombe The SNP has some of the nastiest trolls around though as a party their nationalism has tended to be more inclusive than their English equivalents; taking in everyone living in Scotland rather than people born in Scotland, though you would have no problem finding individual examples of thoroughly nasty comments from SNP activists and elected officials. It is also worth noting that the SNP has always had a decent handful of English born MSP's. I think half a dozen in the last assembly. One thing I only saw recently was a Daily Record article which reported that a majority of people born in Scotland voted for independence but that 72% of people born in England Wales and NI voted No. In other words if the Scots had been able to restrict the ballot in the same was as the EU referendum was then Scotland would be independent yet no SNP leader has ever challenged the result. [Link] In some ways the IndyRef campaign was a precursor in terms of nastiness and bitterness to the Brexit one. Suddenly we're beset by keyboard warriors who think it's alright to abuse someone to their virtual face in utterly disgusting ways, that they would never ever say to their actual face. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 01 Mar 17 3.00pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

The SNP has some of the nastiest trolls around though as a party their nationalism has tended to be more inclusive than their English equivalents; taking in everyone living in Scotland rather than people born in Scotland, though you would have no problem finding individual examples of thoroughly nasty comments from SNP activists and elected officials. It is also worth noting that the SNP has always had a decent handful of English born MSP's. I think half a dozen in the last assembly.

One thing I only saw recently was a Daily Record article which reported that a majority of people born in Scotland voted for independence but that 72% of people born in England Wales and NI voted No. In other words if the Scots had been able to restrict the ballot in the same was as the EU referendum was then Scotland would be independent yet no SNP leader has ever challenged the result.
[Link]

In some ways the IndyRef campaign was a precursor in terms of nastiness and bitterness to the Brexit one.

Suddenly we're beset by keyboard warriors who think it's alright to abuse someone to their virtual face in utterly disgusting ways, that they would never ever say to their actual face.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Stirlingsays Online 01 Mar 17 3.03pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Well Britain First and the British National Party both claim to be nationalist parties about British interests. Of course they're a party of 'neo-Nazi wannabes' who lack sense, intelligence and style of the Third Reich. It's hard to take fascists even the fascists like who can't look well turned out. I was being a bit literal I suppose....I think I'm pretty much a nationalist. I think your connection to imperialism is way outdated for its modern day interpretation. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

01 Mar 17 3.03pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Well Britain First and the British National Party both claim to be nationalist parties about British interests.

Of course they're a party of 'neo-Nazi wannabes' who lack sense, intelligence and style of the Third Reich. It's hard to take fascists even the fascists like who can't look well turned out.

I was being a bit literal I suppose....I think I'm pretty much a nationalist. I think your connection to imperialism is way outdated for its modern day interpretation.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 01 Mar 17 3.40pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Not what I said. I like some of the Scottish Nationalists policies regarding prescriptions and tuition fees (for example). But effectively trying to reduce millions of people to fit into an effective narrow category based around flags and geography is absurd. I generally don't like English nationalist parties because their policies tend to be about why other groups of people are the problem (Such as the EU, Immigrants etc) rather than actual policies aimed at giving back to the people. But in truth, I find nationalism to be about as sensible as phrenology as a methodology for determining right from wrong or ethical decisions. British nationalism, in my experience, is about hollow gestures and far right wing agendas, not about what it can actually do for the British People (such as free prescriptions, free tuition etc). So yes, I prefer the SNP to the BNP, BF, EDL, UKIP (who aren't far right), but regard the base premis of nationalism as absurdly outdated and belonging to an era of imperial nonsense. Hmmm. But we do still have a system of national boundaries and an economy, society and welfare state based on those divides. There is a difference between unhinged nationalistic delusions and defending your own self interests as a member of a defined state.
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Hrolf The Ganger

01 Mar 17 3.40pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Not what I said.

But in truth, I find nationalism to be about as sensible as phrenology as a methodology for determining right from wrong or ethical decisions.

British nationalism, in my experience, is about hollow gestures and far right wing agendas, not about what it can actually do for the British People (such as free prescriptions, free tuition etc).

So yes, I prefer the SNP to the BNP, BF, EDL, UKIP (who aren't far right), but regard the base premis of nationalism as absurdly outdated and belonging to an era of imperial nonsense.

Hmmm. But we do still have a system of national boundaries and an economy, society and welfare state based on those divides.
There is a difference between unhinged nationalistic delusions and defending your own self interests as a member of a defined state.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 01 Mar 17 4.02pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Hmmm. But we do still have a system of national boundaries and an economy, society and welfare state based on those divides. There is a difference between unhinged nationalistic delusions and defending your own self interests as a member of a defined state. I wouldn't say that's Nationalism, but what people generally do on a daily basis. I'd say your and others interests. A bit of nationalism isn't really a bad thing, provided it doesn't become a means of obsfuscating the issues being discussed, or justifying the unjustifiable. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 01 Mar 17 4.02pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Hmmm. But we do still have a system of national boundaries and an economy, society and welfare state based on those divides.
There is a difference between unhinged nationalistic delusions and defending your own self interests as a member of a defined state.

I wouldn't say that's Nationalism, but what people generally do on a daily basis. I'd say your and others interests.

A bit of nationalism isn't really a bad thing, provided it doesn't become a means of obsfuscating the issues being discussed, or justifying the unjustifiable.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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matt_himself Matataland 01 Mar 17 4.39pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 The actual amount of governing of countries done by the EU is very minimal outside of trade, even if I don't agree with that aspect of it. Of course, I wouldn't preclude legislation from the EU just on the basis its from the EU either. Even a broken clock will tell the right time twice a day. Have you been to Marseille? You cannot buy a bendy banana and the aubergines have to be a specific hue before they can be sold. That is not for me or you. It is fascism. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 01 Mar 17 4.39pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The actual amount of governing of countries done by the EU is very minimal outside of trade, even if I don't agree with that aspect of it.

Of course, I wouldn't preclude legislation from the EU just on the basis its from the EU either. Even a broken clock will tell the right time twice a day.

Have you been to Marseille? You cannot buy a bendy banana and the aubergines have to be a specific hue before they can be sold.

That is not for me or you. It is fascism.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Hrolf The Ganger 01 Mar 17 4.42pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 I wouldn't say that's Nationalism, but what people generally do on a daily basis. I'd say your and others interests. A bit of nationalism isn't really a bad thing, provided it doesn't become a means of obsfuscating the issues being discussed, or justifying the unjustifiable. It is frustrating when some of the most prominent flag bearers for so called right wing politics are neo fascists or John Bull resembling bumpkins. There are serious issues surrounding the EU, immigration and trade and it doesn't help to be associated with idiots. That said, nationalism can have a positive effect on a country. Nazi Germany was doing OK before they invaded the Sudetenlands(and the rest of Europe) and started killing Jews.
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Hrolf The Ganger

01 Mar 17 4.42pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I wouldn't say that's Nationalism, but what people generally do on a daily basis. I'd say your and others interests.

A bit of nationalism isn't really a bad thing, provided it doesn't become a means of obsfuscating the issues being discussed, or justifying the unjustifiable.

It is frustrating when some of the most prominent flag bearers for so called right wing politics are neo fascists or John Bull resembling bumpkins.

There are serious issues surrounding the EU, immigration and trade and it doesn't help to be associated with idiots.
That said, nationalism can have a positive effect on a country. Nazi Germany was doing OK before they invaded the Sudetenlands(and the rest of Europe) and started killing Jews.

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Hrolf The Ganger 01 Mar 17 4.52pm
Originally posted by matt_himself Have you been to Marseille? You cannot buy a bendy banana and the aubergines have to be a specific hue before they can be sold. That is not for me or you. It is fascism. But it is OK to keep live langoustine in a tank and peeled rabbits on the counter. Love the French.
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Hrolf The Ganger

01 Mar 17 4.52pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

Have you been to Marseille? You cannot buy a bendy banana and the aubergines have to be a specific hue before they can be sold.

That is not for me or you. It is fascism.

But it is OK to keep live langoustine in a tank and peeled rabbits on the counter.

Love the French.

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