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General Election 2017

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 25 May 17 11.26am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

FYI the data I provided on growth rates were from the OECD so I suggest you take up any data you deem to be BS with their data team.

Selective analysis that you present as factual.

Economists differ on approaches to analysis and theory just as much as experts differ on many things.

That is something that goes completely over your head judging from the stuff you write. You take one approach and put it forward as that's the only way it can be viewed....pretty much like most activists.

You come across as one of those people who thinks they know how the world works because they listened or read someone else's theory of it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 May 2017 11.34am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Hansy's Profile Hansy Flag 25 May 17 11.35am Send a Private Message to Hansy Add Hansy as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

[Link]

See figure 1. Real wages lower now than when Tories came to power.

That's quite interesting. So we're expecting another drop in the short term due to the increase in CPI? Shouldn't this make the AEI redundant then.

Edited by Hansy (25 May 2017 11.38am)

 

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View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 25 May 17 11.37am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Selective analysis that you present as factual.

Economists differ on approaches to analysis and theory just as much as experts differ on many things.

That is something that goes completely over your head judging from the stuff you write. You take one approach and put it forward as that's the only way it can be viewed....pretty much like most activists.

You come across as one of those people who thinks they know how the world works because they listened or read someone else's theory of it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 May 2017 11.34am)

At least he actually backs up his arguments with facts and figures. A refreshing rarity on here.

 

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 25 May 17 11.41am Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Selective analysis that you present as factual.

Economists differ on approaches to analysis and theory just as much as experts differ on many things.

That is something that goes completely over your head judging from the stuff you write. You take one approach as put it forward as that's the only way it can be viewed.

You come across as one of those people who thinks they know how the world works because they listened or read someone else's theory of it.

My post was in response to a claims on growth rates under the past Labour government. So I found the data on growth rates for the entirety of the period in question. I then pointed out that the GFC wasn't down to Labour's economic polices (the G in GFC is the clue). I've not seen any convincing argument to the contrary.

I have formed opinions on economics based on my studies and fairly wide reading. I also consider both what works theoretically in a real world context and the empirical evidence behind it. I do find some economists more influential than others, generally due to the persuasiveness of their argument and their examples, evidence and analysis. I am well aware there are differing opinions out there but I (obviously) find my own current opinions the most convincing.


The whole point of trying to engage in discussion on here is to encounter views of people who I disagree with and express my own views and try and back up those views with reasoned analysis.

 

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 25 May 17 11.43am Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

At least he actually backs up his arguments with facts and figures. A refreshing rarity on here.

Figures, are open to manipulation, as for Facts, nope sorry not seen any of those. Just his opinions with reference to figures.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 25 May 17 11.48am Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Still 2 weeks to go so hopefully we can avoid such a crisis. They are the party of lies, flip-flopping, u-turns, backsliding, smokescreens, cuts, foodbanks, stagnating wages, increasing the debt, taking consumer debt back to record dangerous levels, no plan for Brexit.

Weak and wobbly. A vote for Tories is a vote for uncertainty (manifesto not costed and u-turns aplenty, plus no realism or genuine cooperative leadership on Brexit). It's a vote for more cuts to public services. It's a vote for the grossly unfair dementia tax. It's a vote for instability in our security. It's a vote for diminishing workers rights and tax cuts for the wealthy. It's a vote for a weak economy and a wobbly (dear) leader.


Problem is...even with the debacle that we've seen from the Tories in the last 2 weeks...should they win, just what does that say about Labour?

I mean you'd think it couldn't be easier for them to get in with all the whining; whinging; vitriol and propaganda on social media.

To not get in after all that would be humiliation akin to supporting Br13hton!

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 25 May 17 11.52am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle


The whole point of trying to engage in discussion on here is to encounter views of people who I disagree with and express my own views and try and back up those views with reasoned analysis.

Sure, and I'm sure those views would be better received if they more measured in and balanced in their analysis.

I know enough about economics to know that there is far less agreement than even you allude to in this post.

Party political economics is a disfigurement of the discipline. Inevitable of course and perpetrated by both sides but personally I think it does more harm than good.

People listen when they feel something is balanced.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 25 May 17 11.52am Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

My post was in response to a claims on growth rates under the past Labour government. So I found the data on growth rates for the entirety of the period in question. I then pointed out that the GFC wasn't down to Labour's economic polices (the G in GFC is the clue). I've not seen any convincing argument to the contrary.

I have formed opinions on economics based on my studies and fairly wide reading. I also consider both what works theoretically in a real world context and the empirical evidence behind it. I do find some economists more influential than others, generally due to the persuasiveness of their argument and their examples, evidence and analysis. I am well aware there are differing opinions out there but I (obviously) find my own current opinions the most convincing.


The whole point of trying to engage in discussion on here is to encounter views of people who I disagree with and express my own views and try and back up those views with reasoned analysis.

If any doubt see graph.

Lowest pre-GFC growth figure under Labour was 2.4%.

Highest under Tories was 3.1% second highest 2.2%. So as I said every year but 1 since 2010 has been below every single year pre-GFC under the previous Labour government.

This was the point in question.

My take on this is that, since 2010 austerity has been a drag on growth and has stopped the economy hitting its potential. This is an aside to the increased strains and now critical underfunding on most public services. Talking of weight of opinion, the vast majority of well respected economists agree on the damaging nature of austerity and it being a drag on an economy.

UK GDP growth.png Attachment: UK GDP growth.png (111.72Kb)

 

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View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 25 May 17 11.54am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by dannyh

Figures, are open to manipulation, as for Facts, nope sorry not seen any of those. Just his opinions with reference to figures.

I give up. The modern world is weird.

 

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 25 May 17 11.56am Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Sure, and I'm sure those views would be better received if they more measured in and balanced in their analysis.

I know enough about economics to know that there is far less agreement than even you allude to in this post.

Party political economics is a disfigurement of the discipline. Inevitable of course and perpetrated by both sides but personally I think it does more harm than good.

People listen when they feel something is balanced.

Quote from Paul Krugman:

"British economists have no doubt about the economic damage wrought by austerity. The Centre for Macroeconomics in London regularly surveys a panel of leading UK economists on a variety of questions. When it asked whether the coalition’s policies had promoted growth and employment, those disagreeing outnumbered those agreeing four to one. This isn’t quite the level of unanimity on fiscal policy one finds in the US, where a similar survey of economists found only 2% disagreed with the proposition that the Obama stimulus led to higher output and employment than would have prevailed otherwise, but it’s still an overwhelming consensus."

And this: [Link]

Edited by CambridgeEagle (25 May 2017 11.58am)

 

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 25 May 17 11.57am Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

I give up. The modern world is weird.

Indeed it is, grown men walk around in skin tight jeans, flip flops and top knots

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 25 May 17 11.59am Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

So I've never heard of them before... as they were around in the 1950s having met at the University during the war. This is some 70 years before I lived in Cambridge. I imagine it's changed somewhat since then... And your example doesn't suggest anything close to a "tradition". I can assure you that Conservative Associations in Cambridge are much more of a tradition: [Link]


What an absurd point to raise on a thread about the 2017 election as a response to the Tories failings in the past 7 years and their lack of credibility going into Brexit talks this summer.


...hahaha...the irony of you complaining about using History to make a point after having done so numerous times previously on Government spending actually made me laugh out loud then!

 


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