We can't progress because we won't let it happen
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 Jaha  14 Aug 17 12.42am |
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Originally posted by cardiff eagle
This style of football only works if you have top players. So yes when Barcelona, Bayern etc play it they win. But take any mid table team from any other league and put them in the premier league and they will be just as s*** as we were today. Swansea of a few years ago managed to do it with a fair bit of success
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| dreamwaverider London 14 Aug 17 2.04am |
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Last season we were saved pretty much single handedly by Sakho a loan player. We now have our capacity of them and 2 teenagers were our best players on Saturday, but totally different players to Sakho. The permanent players have one new addition from last season who was definitely lacking for the second goal.
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thai-eagle  chiang mai 14 Aug 17 2.29am |
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Don't let us kid ourselves, every season we (and several other teams) are surviving the rat race of PL by the skin of our teeth.
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| spartakev2 Anerley 14 Aug 17 6.39am |
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Originally posted by dreamwaverider
Last season we were saved pretty much single handedly by Sakho a loan player. We now have our capacity of them and 2 teenagers were our best players on Saturday, but totally different players to Sakho. The permanent players have one new addition from last season who was definitely lacking for the second goal. This. We kid our self wr have quality players. One or two yes, the rest aren't. It wouldn't have mattered what system we played saturday, we just weren't good enough. Don't say we did well at the end of ladt season, that was almost entirely down to sakho. Without him we would have been relegated. According to frank they discussed before the Huddersfield game when they should pass it about and when to play it more direct, and the players kept making the wrong decisions.
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| bexleydave Barnehurst 14 Aug 17 7.54am |
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Originally posted by spartakev2
This. We kid our self wr have quality players. One or two yes, the rest aren't. It wouldn't have mattered what system we played saturday, we just weren't good enough. Don't say we did well at the end of ladt season, that was almost entirely down to sakho. Without him we would have been relegated. According to frank they discussed before the Huddersfield game when they should pass it about and when to play it more direct, and the players kept making the wrong decisions.
Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum) |
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| timbob 14 Aug 17 8.08am |
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No panic required
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| Face in Wetherspoons 14 Aug 17 8.29am |
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He's probably s******g himself already having been totally outclassed by a newly promoted Team who were the bookies' main choice for Relegation. Maybe FdB did not fully appreciate just how tough it is in the Premier League and that there is very little time for players such as Riedeweld (who will probably develop into a fine player) to adjust to the demands. It is not a case that we are judging the Eagles on just one game as they had the two Asia Cup games and two First Team friendlies plus time on the training pitch to prepare. The Huddersfield match was the fifth occasion to play to the new system and the lads all looked totally lost not knowing what to do. We are all aware that you cannot allow a points gap to appear too early in the Season as it then becomes a real task to catch up. I wish FdB well and hope that it all turns out well but trust that he is prepared to change things if it is clear from a very early stage that there is a need to do so.
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DutchEagleJohan  Vlissingen, Netherlands 14 Aug 17 5.42pm |
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I appreciate the thoroughness of your message however would like to offer you an alternative point of view. Perhaps even a bit of a qualified alternative point of view as I was a season ticket holder at the great Ajax mid nineties and a regular visitor of Ajax also under the Boer. The main reason why the money floods in the English game is the attitude you seem to think rather derogatory about. Directness, attacking in principle, lots of things happening in the box. I think that is what brings worldwide TV money in the game. Now I will not say we were brilliant to watch under Allerdyce but in principle there is nothing wrong or not entertaining with a direct style. You mention Guardiola and van Gaal. The first is indeed a prime example of system over everything. he now has to spent a s***load of money to try and repeat what he did at Barcelona and Bayern but any comparison with us is non existent as they are in a different league altogether. Van Gaal I would rate as tactically very very strong, he almost got us in the World cup final with a very average squad and to be honest very defensive football. Yet at Man Utd he made exactly the mistake that I am worried FdB is also making right now: putting system over squad and reality not taking into consideration what the crowd wants and be arrogant and know it all about it. And you may think its appropriate to call a groaning crowd pathetic but sorry to say that I may well have been one of the groaners. Maybe you should allow people to have there own preference of style and not by default assume a new system will bring superior football and entertainment. I come across to England not to see a possession based style of football that leads to no treat, no action in the box and defenders playing it to each other. I have seen so much of this in the Amsterdam Arena that it may just be too much effort to travel across for. And yes, I feel strongly about it and will ask the question: do we really get more entertainment from a different style? And would we really think, at the moment we are a club that can move up the table into European positions? Tweak things yes, try things out fine, but the attitude of "a new system is there to be implied, whatever" is not something I will buy. Also I would think it is rather odd you call the Chelsea style of football of last season s***ty, yet this is exactly the style FdB wants to introduce. What furthermore, strangely so, has gone completely under the radar is that FdB never ever played this system at Ajax. That was simply a 4 man defense, with 3 in midfield and yes, 2 wingers and central attacking player upfront. Something I would hope he would soon settle for with us. Originally posted by Mstrobez
After an extremely poor result and performance I'm gonna put an opinion out that I know will prove unpopular but here goes. In England, we delude ourselves senseless that we have the best league in the world. We go on about how much harder it is in england in comparison to Spain and Germany but our top teams never compete in Europe. We constantly talk down a possession based style of play, despite the fact that the best teams in the world play with this style and produce some of the most entertaining and successful teams and players in the world. A new manager comes to the premier league, say a Pep or Van Gaal and instantly everyone calls them out to fail because "it doesn't work in the premier league". And the minute there is a bad result, the media and the fans are on progressive type managers like a pack of wolves with the "I told you so's" "you ain't in Spain/Holland/Germany/Italy anymore pal" etc etc. No one ever stops to see the bigger picture, everyone wants instant results and success, regardless of longevity. Regardless of building anything in the long term. Regardless of whether or not overall they could build a more successful team that actually wins consistently or continentally. It's all now now now. The consequence of this is teams like Chelsea, playing a s***ty brand of football, winning the league and then the next season not even coming close to doing anything, getting knocked out by a European giant in the champions league and sacking Conte. This is the epitome of what I saw at Selhurst today. There has been negativity around trying a new approach from the minute it was brought up. Every time we tried to play out from the back, the crowd groaned. Every time Hennessey or Dann or Riedewald didn't hoof the ball out, the crowd groaned. Ironically, when they did then hoof it out, the crowd also groaned. I think as fans we massively underestimate the amount it undermines the team and quite frankly one game in to the season, I think it was utterly pathetic. The reason we won't progress is because of this attitude, we cannot improve without giving it a chance. Its funny how we bang on about "OH NOT A FAN OF THIS TIPPY TAPPY NONSENSE" yet completely ignore the fact that the newly promoted side who tanked us today are a team who've worked on a progressive type system for the past year. They're no hoof ball merchants, they're patient in possession, tactically sound and they play as a team. There were many negatives in today's performance, that goes without saying. I have my own reservations about De Boer. We looked defensively all over the place and god forbid we sustain any injuries because barring Cabaye that would've been pretty much a fully fit team we put out today. But unless we try and get better, unless we adapt to the modern game, we will stagnate and it will inevitably lead to relegation because there are only so many Big Sams and Pulises knocking about and we've used up those 2 life lines already. I predict the media will inevitably already have De Boer as a target and it would seem the fans have already passed judgement and deemed this a failed experiment. This will probably lead to a half hearted approach to our new style at the fear of being ruined by the press and booed every time we evade Hennessey hitting and hoping for the best. I've got my tin hat firmly on for this one and I will make a speedy exit before I undoubtedly get destroyed by many on here but this is my opinion about the Premier league in general. And it's one I've had for years, I don't buy the media nonsense pushed down our throat in this country about how amazingly excellent our league is.
Edited by DutchEagleJohan (14 Aug 2017 5.46pm)
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| Dangermouse Hastings 14 Aug 17 5.51pm |
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Originally posted by DutchEagleJohan
I appreciate the thoroughness of your message however would like to offer you an alternative point of view. Perhaps even a bit of a qualified alternative point of view as I was a season ticket holder at the great Ajax mid nineties and a regular visitor of Ajax also under the Boer. The main reason why the money floods in the English game is the attitude you seem to think rather derogatory about. Directness, attacking in principle, lots of things happening in the box. I think that is what brings worldwide TV money in the game. Now I will not say we were brilliant to watch under Allerdyce but in principle there is nothing wrong or not entertaining with a direct style. You mention Guardiola and van Gaal. The first is indeed a prime example of system over everything. he now has to spent a s***load of money to try and repeat what he did at Barcelona and Bayern but any comparison with us is non existent as they are in a different league altogether. Van Gaal I would rate as tactically very very strong, he almost got us in the World cup final with a very average squad and to be honest very defensive football. Yet at Man Utd he made exactly the mistake that I am worried FdB is also making right now: putting system over squad and reality not taking into consideration what the crowd wants and be arrogant and know it all about it. And you may think its appropriate to call a groaning crowd pathetic but sorry to say that I may well have been one of the groaners. Maybe you should allow people to have there own preference of style and not by default assume a new system will bring superior football and entertainment. I come across to England not to see a possession based style of football that leads to no treat, no action in the box and defenders playing it to each other. I have seen so much of this in the Amsterdam Arena that it may just be too much effort to travel across for. And yes, I feel strongly about it and will ask the question: do we really get more entertainment from a different style? And would we really think, at the moment we are a club that can move up the table into European positions? Tweak things yes, try things out fine, but the attitude of "a new system is there to be implied, whatever" is not something I will buy. Also I would think it is rather odd you call the Chelsea style of football of last season s***ty, yet this is exactly the style FdB wants to introduce. What furthermore, strangely so, has gone completely under the radar is that FdB never ever played this system at Ajax. That was simply a 4 man defense, with 3 in midfield and yes, 2 wingers and central attacking player upfront. Something I would hope he would soon settle for with us. Edited by DutchEagleJohan (14 Aug 2017 5.45pm) Edited by DutchEagleJohan (14 Aug 2017 5.46pm) I was under the impression that 4-3-3 was his preferred formation. Very surprised by the change personally.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 14 Aug 17 6.58pm |
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Frank also said ''Of course, results over style.'' Add that to the promise of doing it gradually. If it goes t1ts up with a massive serving of stubbornness then people will be rightfully p1ssed off. Time will tell. Come on Frank. Come on Palace. (Praying we're okay. Could do without this so early in the season after the tension at the end of the last season)
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| Mstrobez 14 Aug 17 10.40pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Frank also said ''Of course, results over style.'' Add that to the promise of doing it gradually. If it goes t1ts up with a massive serving of stubbornness then people will be rightfully p1ssed off. Time will tell. Come on Frank. Come on Palace. (Praying we're okay. Could do without this so early in the season after the tension at the end of the last season) I think what a lot of people are missing is 3-4-3 is a direct response to this. He didn't play 3 at the back at Ajax or Inter so implementing this style is in my opinion a solution for those concerned he wouldn't adapt. The idea, from what he's said is that it effectively can lead to you defending with 5 at the back when the opposition is on the front foot. Edited by Mstrobez (14 Aug 2017 10.41pm)
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 14 Aug 17 10.47pm |
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Originally posted by Mstrobez
I think what a lot of people are missing is 3-4-3 is a direct response to this. He didn't play 3 at the back at Ajax or Inter so implementing this style is in my opinion a solution for those concerned he wouldn't adapt. The idea, from what he's said is that it effectively can lead to you defending with 5 at the back when the opposition is on the front foot. Edited by Mstrobez (14 Aug 2017 10.41pm) Trouble is the 2 wide forwards high up the pitch so you less players defending overall. 3-5-2 is an alternative. You can have Zaha in a free role, Luka shielding and 2 midfielders doing their stuff from box to box with freedom they didn't have v Huddersfield.
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