Grooming Gangs + Tommy Robinson Thread
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 Mapletree  Croydon 14 Jul 19 3.02pm |
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This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'm starting to notice double standards with you Maple, which is kind of disappointing.....Considering I've directly stated the case twice to you your non positioning on this Wisbech thing actually says which a lot to me. It's the same regards your comments on Robinson....My points are ignored. In fact that's where I feel this is coming too. The time for talk is closing down. Trying to debate and expecting fair treatment results in convictions. People who fight for causes all through history have not been 'clean record' individuals...Mandela actually ordered attacks that killed civilians. I could name many individuals, a few within society right now with far worst criminal records yet who don't receive this double standard. You lose all sense of perspective when you discuss Robinson......Not only do you dead name him, which is another double standard you apply but you minimise what is done to him and over emphasize faults.....which are mostly activist and Police sought....this 'incident with his wife you relate to ended with no charge from his wife. You certainly care nothing for his family because you support mocking any means he can make money. I will repeat that I think you have become emotional. You said the State was preventing Yaxley from making a living, I pointed out that is pretty rich considering all of the things he himself has done to snooker his own options. I said that he fights for causes that happen to make him relatively rich, affecting how he operates. You did not respond. I have no doubt that both Leeds and Canterbury were efforts to raise his profile which gives a financial benefit. I have also said in the past that I want to see ANY evidence that what he has done had in any way accelerated justice, I have seen none. In fact all it has done is to put justice in jeopardy. I don't know what dead naming is. Yaxley uses multiple persona in order to make his living and make himself famous. But it isn't Tommy Robinson who is being prevented from making a living, he is doing fine in his own little world. As you know very well, you don't need someone to press charges where there is criminal action. In any case the person he hurt (most) was not his wife but an off-duty Police officer who had stepped in to protect his wife. In terms of double-standards, I suggest you consider carefully why you give this individual the benefit of the doubt. As far as Wisbech goes, this is a bit like how it was originally between you and I and also with ChrisGC. In the end, sometimes through debate you find certain areas of common ground if you persevere. I don't think Wisbech has ever been rude or unreasonable, he is just like a dog with a bone. Well, such people exist...
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| Wisbech Eagle Online Truro Cornwall 14 Jul 19 3.25pm |
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This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I politely ask you to stop replying to me. As I have already politely explained why I won't, why do you ask again? I am not replying to you in any kind of personal capacity! I am answering points made in posts. You have total control over what you do. So do I. You make your decisions and I'll make mine. Repeating questions to which you have already received answers seems pretty pointless to me.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| ChrisGC Wantage 14 Jul 19 3.40pm |
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This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle Tommy Robinson is finished, tainted good and proper. His history of violence and the EDL was always going to drown out his entirely sincere and correct message on Islam and grooming gangs. That said, I am shocked and disappointed that there's a couple of clearly intelligent (although somehow still lefty) posters on here who can't look past their own personal distain and appreciate that state sponsored shut down of someone's freedom of speech is extremely concerning. They arrested him to shut him up and then put a plausible charge on after the fact, simple as that. As for his complete removal from social media because a few elites don't want him to be heard? Hamas, Antifa and hope not hate still have official Twitter accounts ffs. If you're not worried by this you're either thick or the enemy. Edit: Other than that, those jumping for joy over his stitch up just seeem a bit divvy. Edited by ChrisGC (14 Jul 2019 3.43pm)
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jul 19 3.40pm |
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This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by Mapletree
I will repeat that I think you have become emotional. Now that's an insult.....I suppose annoyed is an emotion however, I have said nothing that I don't support. Originally posted by Mapletree
You said the State was preventing Yaxley from making a living, I pointed out that is pretty rich considering all of the things he himself has done to snooker his own options. Errrr...no, it's activists and the state taking proactive actions against him. You just wish to cloak it as his responsibility for actions against him you support. Originally posted by Mapletree
I said that he fights for causes that happen to make him relatively rich, affecting how he operates. You did not respond. I have no doubt that both Leeds and Canterbury were efforts to raise his profile which gives a financial benefit. I did respond....He's been left with no choice due to you guys not allowing anyone official to push back against the expansion of Islam in the country. Originally posted by Mapletree
I have also said in the past that I want to see ANY evidence that what he has done had in any way accelerated justice, I have seen none. In fact all it has done is to put justice in jeopardy. There is no evidence it hasn't.....it's a strawman contention. The EDL were stating this way before anyone else was publicly....we can't say either way how that influenced things. What we do know is that the Police and local authorities did not consider these crimes worthy of direct action until the Time publicly exposed them...there has now been considerable copy written on this but no accountability....Robinson and the EDL had been referring to rapes many years before. Robinson was doing the right thing, the state wasn't.....what the state did was criminal. Originally posted by Mapletree
I don't know what dead naming is. Yaxley uses multiple persona in order to make his living and make himself famous. But it isn't Tommy Robinson who is being prevented from making a living, he is doing fine in his own little world. Funny how many things you don't know which suit you. It isn't that hard to work it out....think Elton John. Originally posted by Mapletree
As you know very well, you don't need someone to press charges where there is criminal action. In any case the person he hurt (most) was not his wife but an off-duty Police officer who had stepped in to protect his wife. How do I put this....I don't trust our Police anymore. I've moved considerably from a Police supporter to be one who doesn't trust its management anymore. Originally posted by Mapletree
In terms of double-standards, I suggest you consider carefully why you give this individual the benefit of the doubt. I have already answered this to you directly more than one. As for double standards Maple, I suggest you consider your own behaviour in that arena. Originally posted by Mapletree
As far as Wisbech goes, this is a bit like how it was originally between you and I and also with ChrisGC. In the end, sometimes through debate you find certain areas of common ground if you persevere. I don't think Wisbech has ever been rude or unreasonable, he is just like a dog with a bone. Well, such people exist... I have never supported the continued posting to a individual who has directly asked not to be replied to. From memory you never made that request but instead complained about how you were treated. The option to ask another to stop replying at someone has occurred several times on this site and those with ethics have followed it. For example Dollardays made the request of Chris, who after a few times stopped. I've asked this of three posters and only one had the decency to stop....the other ended up banned and now we have this guy. A block facility can't come fast enough.....there are certain opponents I have time for or enjoy the humour of....and certain posters I don't. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jul 2019 3.44pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| ChrisGC Wantage 14 Jul 19 3.49pm |
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This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I have never supported the continued posting to a individual who has directly asked not to be replied to. From memory you never made that request but instead complained about how you were treated. The option to ask another to stop replying at someone has occurred several times on this site and those with ethics have followed it. For example Dollardays made the request of Chris, who after a few times stopped. I've asked this of three posters and only one had the decency to stop....the other ended up banned and now we have this guy. A block facility can't come fast enough.....there are certain opponents I have time for or enjoy the humour of....and certain posters I don't. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jul 2019 3.44pm) That Dollardays thing was a laugh, he stitched me up good and proper. Fair play to him. As for Wisbech, I don't know how you get drawn in mate, the bloke thinks grooming is excusable. Not worth your time trying to debate someone with such bizarre world views.
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| Mapletree Croydon 14 Jul 19 3.57pm |
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This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by ChrisGC
Tommy Robinson is finished, tainted good and proper. His history of violence and the EDL was always going to drown out his entirely sincere and correct message on Islam and grooming gangs. That said, I am shocked and disappointed that there's a couple of clearly intelligent (although somehow still lefty) posters on here who can't look past their own personal distain and appreciate that state sponsored shut down of someone's freedom of speech is extremely concerning. They arrested him to shut him up and then put a plausible charge on after the fact, simple as that. As for his complete removal from social media because a few elites don't want him to be heard? Hamas, Antifa and hope not hate still have official Twitter accounts ffs. If you're not worried by this you're either thick or the enemy. Edit: Other than that, those jumping for joy over his stitch up just seeem a bit divvy. Edited by ChrisGC (14 Jul 2019 3.43pm) In fact I don't have disdain for Yaxley, although I don't have any time for his alter-ego. I just can't buy in to the self-promoted theories around him being 'shut down'. Look at the timeline, many of his misdemeanours were long before he started on his 'crusade'. It is so odd how intelligent posters can rally to someone who has proved himself in the past, before this became political, to be a thug, criminal and involved in drugs. They support him as he gives a voice to their most extreme views and fears without considering the nature of the person himself, he is forgiven it seems. Last time he was forgiven for walking up to someone and sucker punching him as he was moving away, clearly not a threat. How is that in any way acceptable? And how is it I am vilified for pointing that out? Anyway, I post on here because I enjoy the knock-about, I know I won't win anyone over but the one thing I would say is that if ever anyone tries to use the Robinson brand in the name of Palace I will do everything in my power to block that. He doesn't speak for the majority.
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| Mapletree Croydon 14 Jul 19 3.58pm |
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This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by ChrisGC
That Dollardays thing was a laugh, he stitched me up good and proper. Fair play to him. As for Wisbech, I don't know how you get drawn in mate, the bloke thinks grooming is excusable. Not worth your time trying to debate someone with such bizarre world views.
You show it in such lovely ways.
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jul 19 4.05pm |
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This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by ChrisGC
That Dollardays thing was a laugh, he stitched me up good and proper. Fair play to him. As for Wisbech, I don't know how you get drawn in mate, the bloke thinks grooming is excusable. Not worth your time trying to debate someone with such bizarre world views. He made some iffy statements early on along the lines of how he views the thinking behind keeping it quiet might have been reasonable. You're right, and my conclusion is that he's a waste of time communicating with.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| ChrisGC Wantage 14 Jul 19 4.06pm |
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This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by Mapletree
In fact I don't have disdain for Yaxley, although I don't have any time for his alter-ego. I just can't buy in to the self-promoted theories around him being 'shut down'. Look at the timeline, many of his misdemeanours were long before he started on his 'crusade'. It is so odd how intelligent posters can rally to someone who has proved himself in the past, before this became political, to be a thug, criminal and involved in drugs. They support him as he gives a voice to their most extreme views and fears without considering the nature of the person himself, he is forgiven it seems. Last time he was forgiven for walking up to someone and sucker punching him as he was moving away, clearly not a threat. How is that in any way acceptable? And how is it I am vilified for pointing that out? Anyway, I post on here because I enjoy the knock-about, I know I won't win anyone over but the one thing I would say is that if ever anyone tries to use the Robinson brand in the name of Palace I will do everything in my power to block that. He doesn't speak for the majority. That's what I mean about he'll never get away from his violent past and history with the EDL, some of which I'm not ok with. Just like I'm not ok with Corbyn, Adams and Mandela holding prominent public positions and they've done and said a lot worse. As for his message, I didn't think it was extreme at all. He was entirely correct and factual. Just as I can admit that TR's history wasn't commendable, so others should be able to see that despite his past and personality that he's right about Islam and grooming gangs.
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| Mapletree Croydon 14 Jul 19 4.26pm |
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This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by Stirlingsays
He made some iffy statements early on along the lines of how he views the thinking behind keeping it quiet might have been reasonable. You're right, and my conclusion is that he's a waste of time communicating with. I haven't read the whole thread but I saw nothing where Wisbech said grooming was excusable. Only that justice may have been moving with low visibility for good reasons. And also moving slowly for bad reasons. But as I have said multiple times, what was the excuse for all the other cases moving even slower, certainly not race or religion. Shirley Oaks and North Wales were worse in terms of process and timelines.
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jul 19 4.43pm |
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This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by Mapletree
I haven't read the whole thread but I saw nothing where Wisbech said grooming was excusable. Only that justice may have been moving with low visibility for good reasons. And also moving slowly for bad reasons. But as I have said multiple times, what was the excuse for all the other cases moving even slower, certainly not race or religion. Shirley Oaks and North Wales were worse in terms of process and timelines. As a wider discussion on child abuse and state failures they are worthy of discussing but they don't pertain to Robinson. You bring this point up again, yet I know that I've answered it several times before. Robinson's focus is anti the expansion of Islam in the country. He does not exclusively focus upon child abuse but focuses upon all the negatives associated with its expansion. Again, he is needed as there is nobody else willing to take up this mantle even though people like Douglas Murray has said that there he's spoken to many officials who agree with him....yet fear for their careers more. He's resigned to it all....I think it's 65/35. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jul 2019 4.51pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jul 19 4.49pm |
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This post has been merged from a topic called 'BBC fake news - Tommy Robinson' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by Mapletree
I haven't read the whole thread but I saw nothing where Wisbech said grooming was excusable. Only that justice may have been moving with low visibility for good reasons. And also moving slowly for bad reasons. But as I have said multiple times, what was the excuse for all the other cases moving even slower, certainly not race or religion. Shirley Oaks and North Wales were worse in terms of process and timelines. Saying that there are good reasons to allow the rapes of minors to continue to X number of years because....essentially you don't want to rouse people....That is essentially quite disgusting. There are no good reasons for that. If you know minors are being raped.....You stop it, regardless of 'community relations'. People need to be sacked for this and the establishment is protecting itself and punishing critics. The fact that you can find your way clear to even outlay that position without criticism shows just how tribal this is now.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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