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January 29 2022 1.17pm

biggest poppulation & biggest debt

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 30 Dec 17 12.00pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Are we, or are we conditioned to believe that the system, that seems to be failing, is the best because it benefits us the most.

Capitalism doesn't seem to be working or delivering for the poor and third world. In truth though, the problem isn't really capitalism per se, but the embracing of monetarism and globalisation: which is (has) replacing (replaced) the notion of ethics, with the ideal of profit as the sole justification for action.

Multi National Corporations are no longer beholden to states, government or society, which inevitably leads to the consequence that they only serve the interests of capital production, not the societies in which they operate.

The objections that led to Liberalism and the rise of socialism (the poverty and squalor of the industrial working classes) has simply been transferred out of sight and out of mind, overseas. Much in the same way the middle classes could avoid the slums and ghettos of the working classes in the 19th centaury.

The reality of modern capitalism is its lack of regulation and systems of control, to prevent its worst excesses. The liberal movement and the labour movement transformed capitalism with the notion of 'little capitalism' or 'responsible capitalism' - in a way that globalisation and monetarism have rejected.

Socialism in and of itself, I don't believe, is a viable system in a resource-scarce society. However it does work exceptionally well as the critical analysis of the failings of capitalism.

We shouldn't reject opposition to the damage and excesses of capitalism, because we don't 'have a better system - because communism failed' because it misses the idea that capitalism is itself a large number of different theories and approaches to society - Moving from Keyensian capitalism to monetarism has produced great problems in society - that can be resolved, if we have the will, by regulation of the excesses.

Failing to regulate these systems will eventually lead to them being rejected, by force, as we saw in the 19th centuary with the rise of Communism. The countries that reacted to the threat of Communism, by addressing the problems and inequity of capitalist society were the ones that avoided the threat.

Reasonable lives, opportunities and some pleasure in life is really what people want. Jobs, reasonable income, a fair deal in society, some joy time and the chance to better the lives of the kids pretty much sums up all that the working class movements have ever really been seeking.

No one cares about someone being rich, when they have a reasonably enjoyable life in which they have some sense of power over their future.

Capitalism doesn't have to produce misery on a grand scale, oppress peoples opportunities, trap them in poverty, create gulfs of disparity - Its myopia of those who benefit the most that creates that.

It can be a force for good.

I agree almost entirely. There has to be an effort to tweak the negative aspects of the capitalism so that it serves the vast majority better. I'm not qualified to say specifically what the best means of doing that is.

In basic terms, a better distrubution of wealth is required but without damaging the mechanisms that allow its creation. I'm sure this is possible theoretically but people create wealth because they are esentially greedy and so therefore unlikely to want to sacrifice for the greater good on a scale that would have a serious effect.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 13 Jan 22 12.27pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Searching for a relevant thread I settled on this one. Recently the very useful Nextdoor app has had people objecting to new builds of flats south of the Croydon borough, and they’re starting to get some of these turned down, with the help of the Tory MP Chris Philp.

Now what I’ve noticed is in the comments sections is people tend to blame the birth rate, and I expect feel uncomfortable stating the high immigration every year for 2 decades. Plus there is a contradiction here. If there is a lower/falling birth rate then you will struggle to support the ageing population. 4 retired people per 10 working people is a huge concern.

I found this article on the issues of births. There is no easy answer but the one I’m witnessing isn’t a solution. It just makes the issue longer lasting. But it does make me laugh when the environmentally concerned London professionals opt to not have kids when a bus stop or two away people couldn’t care less about how many they have or the issues, costs or consequences, which goes on and on.

[Link]

Of course the house building policies have been worse than inadequate for 30 years, but demand as well as supply is a factor. In an ideal world you could instantly scoop up all the very large and huge properties and replace them with the normal suburban sized houses and smaller gardens, but until something like that changes we’ll have more and more 1-2 person dwellings, having children in the private housing sector a luxury for people not brainwashed into thinking they shouldn’t to change the world while others think nothing of it and come to Britain and have more and more children.

What’s even more of a con is the younger generation professionals who think they’re doing the right thing are being charged a ridiculous price for small flats on a corner on a main road or busy road. Then there’s the town centres like Croydon where cheaper flats on dozens of floors are being crammed in because of issues in question. I don’t suppose there’s any answer to it because nobody in power cares or there’s always enough people who don’t care whatever their interest, or there’s quick money to be made.

 


COYP

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 13 Jan 22 1.24pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Leftie always argue that a bigger population gives us more competitiveness, a world-class workforce and economies of scale.

thus making a better country with more wealth etc.

meanwhile the poorest countries on the Planet all have a massive population. And the wealthy places don't.

 


Pay for a BBC TV license ? yeah, right.

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 13 Jan 22 1.36pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

Leftie always argue that a bigger population gives us more competitiveness, a world-class workforce and economies of scale.

thus making a better country with more wealth etc.

meanwhile the poorest countries on the Planet all have a massive population. And the wealthy places don't.

The two biggest economies in the world, by a huge distance, are China and America...

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 13 Jan 22 2.28pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

The two biggest economies in the world, by a huge distance, are China and America...

Why? America's population is modest compared to India or China.

It doesn't really take a genius to realize that increasing the population via immigration must ultimately fail. It is a band aid only. To sustain the population we would need to accelerate immigration and this cannot be sustained in with finite resources.

We have seen some results of this folly already in housing shortages, stagnated wages, NHS stress, Water and electricity demands and cultural division.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 13 Jan 22 2.53pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Why? America's population is modest compared to India or China.

It doesn't really take a genius to realize that increasing the population via immigration must ultimately fail. It is a band aid only. To sustain the population we would need to accelerate immigration and this cannot be sustained in with finite resources.

We have seen some results of this folly already in housing shortages, stagnated wages, NHS stress, Water and electricity demands and cultural division.

It also affects immigrants already here and arriving here. They may not think so but it does and will. Ethnic minorities might think that a higher percentage of non white people will benefit them, which I expect it might do to an extent, but ability and employability is really what it comes down to. But like you say, it goes on and on to address the issues and the issues it causes with no long term solution. I think we can thank Tony Bliar for starting a generation of unskilled young people and his illogical idea on how everyone should live. He still thinks he was right.

 


COYP

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 13 Jan 22 3.28pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Why? America's population is modest compared to India or China.

It doesn't really take a genius to realize that increasing the population via immigration must ultimately fail. It is a band aid only. To sustain the population we would need to accelerate immigration and this cannot be sustained in with finite resources.

We have seen some results of this folly already in housing shortages, stagnated wages, NHS stress, Water and electricity demands and cultural division.

So the suggestion that wealthy places don't have massive populations, which is the point I was replying to, is a nonsense.

 

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View Palace Old Geezer's Profile Palace Old Geezer Online Flag Midhurst 13 Jan 22 3.29pm Send a Private Message to Palace Old Geezer Add Palace Old Geezer as a friend

Reading today that the ONS experts saying that although deaths will exceed births, the UK population will still rise from 67.1 in mid 2020 to 69.2 million by mid 2030.

The 3.2% rise (2.2m) is forecast to be down to continued immigration. Pretty sure I won't be around to see it, but good old Blighty is going to look and behave very differently in 2030.

It's already difficult to recognise our Country when we watch TV these days. Almost unrecognisable by then methinks.

 


Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 13 Jan 22 3.56pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

The two biggest economies in the world, by a huge distance, are China and America...

China come 77th by GDP per capita. USA 7th, for now.

[Link]

 


COYP

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 13 Jan 22 4.04pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer

Reading today that the ONS experts saying that although deaths will exceed births, the UK population will still rise from 67.1 in mid 2020 to 69.2 million by mid 2030.

The 3.2% rise (2.2m) is forecast to be down to continued immigration. Pretty sure I won't be around to see it, but good old Blighty is going to look and behave very differently in 2030.

It's already difficult to recognise our Country when we watch TV these days. Almost unrecognisable by then methinks.

Parts of Britain, and England, will be very different to other parts, more so than before in some ways. Another noticeable thing recently is the lack of road etiquette/rudeness spreading out from built up areas. Not from everyone but you do notice some who think everyone is an enemy and a f*** you attitude that is very unnecessary anywhere, especially in calmer areas.

 


COYP

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 13 Jan 22 4.17pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

China come 77th by GDP per capita. USA 7th, for now.

[Link]

Are you suggesting America and China are not wealthy places?

Assuming you're not, your post does nothing to contest what I said.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 13 Jan 22 4.59pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Are you suggesting America and China are not wealthy places?

Assuming you're not, your post does nothing to contest what I said.

Depends who you are doesn’t it? All very well saying a country is rich. What about you? If you’re poor or have little opportunity or the opportunities are disappearing, what good is that?

I think I’d make an accurate guess that China’s wealth is distributed among a smaller percentage than America’s. Well actually the GDP per capita kind of hints that it might be, but I would have guessed that anyway. Pretty obvious hey?

Also I think what people term as ‘wealthy’ might be changing, at the same time as the ‘white privilege’ term cropped up. Many more people consider someone in an average house in an average area as wealthy now. You can now see beggars in towns you never expected to. But it’s all progress.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (13 Jan 2022 5.11pm)

 


COYP

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