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January 29 2022 1.14pm

biggest poppulation & biggest debt

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 29 Dec 17 10.22pm

Originally posted by cryrst

To who though.
Not you . Not me.

It may benefit you. Especially if you need to use the NHS,

 

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 29 Dec 17 10.46pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset


Yes they do.
[Link]

True up to a point, but people also don't want huge swathes of their taxes going on International aid as well (No matter whether we get trade deals out of it or not) It would be called bribery elsewhere.

 


Pro USA & Israel

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 29 Dec 17 11.22pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

True up to a point, but people also don't want huge swathes of their taxes going on International aid as well (No matter whether we get trade deals out of it or not) It would be called bribery elsewhere.

Do you really think governments would even have foreign aid if there wasn't a big kickback in it for them?
I see India have overtaken us in the richest nation charts. They should definitely be doing more to look after their poverty stricken. Do we still send aid there?

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 29 Dec 17 11.30pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Do you really think governments would even have foreign aid if there wasn't a big kickback in it for them?
I see India have overtaken us in the richest nation charts. They should definitely be doing more to look after their poverty stricken. Do we still send aid there?

Yes, that's what happens when there are too many people.

 

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View Bert the Head's Profile Bert the Head Flag Epsom 29 Dec 17 11.38pm Send a Private Message to Bert the Head Add Bert the Head as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Could the two be linked? We had more police back in the 90's than we do now. our hospitals were running in budget with more beds. we had no housing shortage. wages grew each year.so on so on,

Why is mass population haled as such a success when it looks to be ruining this country.

I hear the argument of more workers more tax but clearly that's not working when we are borrowing more than ever.

I would be interested to get your views.


Its down to austerity policies not immigration.
We had a housing shortage in the 1990s and this is a result of selling off social housing on the cheap.

Mass population is not ruining the country but austerity policies are. We are borrowing more than ever because of gross mismanagement of the economy by the Tories. They are ideologically wedded to cutting taxes that benefit the rich (why hiking up VAT) and making sure the unions who represent working people are undermined and now weak...meanwhile they allow very rich people and rich companies to hide their money offshore and avoid tax.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 29 Dec 17 11.43pm

No, that's what happens in a capitalist / caste system.

Plenty of cash to alleviate things if needed. It's just those in power choose or are told to choose not to.

Same here, lack of investment in infrastructure in areas of high immigration in order that they cope better with an influx of people has proved to be very socially costly and to my mind allowed xenophobia to flourish. A big mistake made.

Whatever the government, the needs of the people should be a priority, not which dodgy deal will suit individuals above the nation's wants and needs.

Edited by nickgusset (29 Dec 2017 11.45pm)

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 30 Dec 17 12.08am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

The July report you mention is about RBS - that was the only point I was making.

No, I provided the header page to the July overview. The RBS report was a separate document of which the overview makes mention.

Edited by Mapletree (30 Dec 2017 12.34am)

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 30 Dec 17 2.31am

Originally posted by Mapletree

No, I provided the header page to the July overview. The RBS report was a separate document of which the overview makes mention.

Edited by Mapletree (30 Dec 2017 12.34am)

Does it actually matter or is it splitting hairs?

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 30 Dec 17 7.06am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

No, I provided the header page to the July overview. The RBS report was a separate document of which the overview makes mention.

Edited by Mapletree (30 Dec 2017 12.34am)

Ok for clarity, when I mention the July NAO report, this is the one I mean and no other.

[Link]

 

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 30 Dec 17 9.37am Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Since 2008 our population has increased by 4 million people. The reason they come is to work and pay tax which is a benefit so why are we still borrowing?https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

Surely if you decide to have 4 million people you increase the resources like more hospital beds, police , public spending. We are constantly told they benefit us. I don't see the benefits to society. Is it a coincidence wages froze with mass population? Of course not. For me it's large corporations that Benifit but average jo has seen the negatives.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 30 Dec 17 9.49am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

No, that's what happens in a capitalist / caste system.

Plenty of cash to alleviate things if needed. It's just those in power choose or are told to choose not to.

Same here, lack of investment in infrastructure in areas of high immigration in order that they cope better with an influx of people has proved to be very socially costly and to my mind allowed xenophobia to flourish. A big mistake made.

Whatever the government, the needs of the people should be a priority, not which dodgy deal will suit individuals above the nation's wants and needs.

Edited by nickgusset (29 Dec 2017 11.45pm)

We are using the best system available and investment in infastructure is unsustainable. Wake up.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 30 Dec 17 11.17am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

We are using the best system available and investment in infastructure is unsustainable. Wake up.

Are we, or are we conditioned to believe that the system, that seems to be failing, is the best because it benefits us the most.

Capitalism doesn't seem to be working or delivering for the poor and third world. In truth though, the problem isn't really capitalism per se, but the embracing of monetarism and globalisation: which is (has) replacing (replaced) the notion of ethics, with the ideal of profit as the sole justification for action.

Multi National Corporations are no longer beholden to states, government or society, which inevitably leads to the consequence that they only serve the interests of capital production, not the societies in which they operate.

The objections that led to Liberalism and the rise of socialism (the poverty and squalor of the industrial working classes) has simply been transferred out of sight and out of mind, overseas. Much in the same way the middle classes could avoid the slums and ghettos of the working classes in the 19th centaury.

The reality of modern capitalism is its lack of regulation and systems of control, to prevent its worst excesses. The liberal movement and the labour movement transformed capitalism with the notion of 'little capitalism' or 'responsible capitalism' - in a way that globalisation and monetarism have rejected.

Socialism in and of itself, I don't believe, is a viable system in a resource-scarce society. However it does work exceptionally well as the critical analysis of the failings of capitalism.

We shouldn't reject opposition to the damage and excesses of capitalism, because we don't 'have a better system - because communism failed' because it misses the idea that capitalism is itself a large number of different theories and approaches to society - Moving from Keyensian capitalism to monetarism has produced great problems in society - that can be resolved, if we have the will, by regulation of the excesses.

Failing to regulate these systems will eventually lead to them being rejected, by force, as we saw in the 19th centuary with the rise of Communism. The countries that reacted to the threat of Communism, by addressing the problems and inequity of capitalist society were the ones that avoided the threat.

Reasonable lives, opportunities and some pleasure in life is really what people want. Jobs, reasonable income, a fair deal in society, some joy time and the chance to better the lives of the kids pretty much sums up all that the working class movements have ever really been seeking.

No one cares about someone being rich, when they have a reasonably enjoyable life in which they have some sense of power over their future.

Capitalism doesn't have to produce misery on a grand scale, oppress peoples opportunities, trap them in poverty, create gulfs of disparity - Its myopia of those who benefit the most that creates that.

It can be a force for good.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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