Tax on pensioners proposed
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 Lyons550  Shirley 09 May 18 4.17pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
My experience is that the currently retired people were dreadful at looking after their parents. Very selfish generation from just post war. They were also rubbish at looking after their grandchildren
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| Mapletree Croydon 09 May 18 4.18pm |
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Originally posted by becky
So, by your criteria, if contributions made do not permit retirees to free healthcare after retirement, I would ask where you stand on those who have NEVER made ANY contribution to the welfare system? Non-working spouses, benefit claimants & children - after all if one's contributions do not cover one's own costs why, by your precedent, should your children's be entitled either? Where do you draw the line on eligibility over contribution? I don't Becky I just say the argument that people have already paid is spurious. In my opinion retired people with large incomes should still contribute a part of their income in national insurance, just as they do in income tax. It doesn't matter how that income is earned, nor how old they are. It is an anachronistic anomaly.
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| Mapletree Croydon 09 May 18 4.21pm |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
I sit in between your parents and you. My experience is that my generation uses the benefits of good pensions and decent housing in support of their grandchildren. My mother's generation, however, just couldn't believe its luck. She was brought up during the war and her generation lived for the day, always knowing it could be their last. Despite the constant threats hanging over them, it seems they largely had a good time back then and continued it into their octogenarian years.
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| Lyons550 Shirley 09 May 18 4.23pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Yeah, selfish kids. Fancy wanting to prepare themselves to compete in the global market. Should leave that to Canada, South Korea and Lithuania.
I believe that University education is overdone though...i never went and my abstinence never did me any harm ...along with thousands of others; and yet,so many people fall into the trap (and backward thinking) that its the ONLY way to get on and, feigning offence at the merest suggestion that its not all its cracked up to be, as they realise it may well be they're looking at the naked empower! The irony being that now its open to everyone...it's being hoisted by its own petard as it becomes a greater irrelevance; as what once was a guarantee of a job (post qualification) its not...because everyone has one.
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| Mapletree Croydon 09 May 18 4.25pm |
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Originally posted by elgrande
Well for a start the post office screwed over the workers on their pensions,and that's before it was sold off. I have no doubt you are correct. It wasn't individual companies, it was the market that dictated the need for DB pensions. Now any organisation that employed large numbers during e.g. the 1970s has a huge continuing cost hanging around its neck. It is to be expected some will try to duck out of as much as they can, although it may not be ethical. Meanwhile newcomer organisations like DHL or easyJet make hay given their far lower costs.
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| Lyons550 Shirley 09 May 18 4.27pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
I sit in between your parents and you. My experience is that my generation uses the benefits of good pensions and decent housing in support of their grandchildren. My mother's generation, however, just couldn't believe its luck. She was brought up during the war and her generation lived for the day, always knowing it could be their last. Despite the constant threats hanging over them, it seems they largely had a good time back then and continued it into their octogenarian years.
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| Lyons550 Shirley 09 May 18 4.58pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Quite so. I find the argument that people have a right to free NHS treatment when retired - as they contributed all of their lives - risible. The calculation is complex but let's say they mostly paid in - in today's money - around £2,000 to £2,500 per annum. Currently the NHS spend is around £2,200 per person. 31.5m people are in work of a population totaling 66.5m. So the amount each working person would need to contribute per year to cover current needs is over £4,600. Alternatively an individual that lives for 80 years and works for 50 would need to pay in £3,520 per annum to have 'banked' enough to pay for their inclusion in the system. It's a well rehearsed point that our current retirees - if they have pensions - probably have defined benefit ones. These are crippling businesses like British Airways, BT and Royal Mail and allowing competitors to overtake them. Why shouldn't such people contribute for the increasing costs of their healthcare. The cost per head when the NHS started up was approx £230 in today's money. So in real terms it has risen nearly ten fold, including due to an increasingly aging population.
I've always been an advocate of preventative care.
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| Mapletree Croydon 09 May 18 5.03pm |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
I've always been an advocate of preventative care. Do I look like a Doctor? i.e. can you read my writing?
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| Mapletree Croydon 09 May 18 5.04pm |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
No, in essence I disagree. I don't think people currently in their teens and twenties will be nearly as selfish as those in their 70s and 80s. Or maybe you are saying it comes in waves and there will be dodgy group now in their 40s and 50s? Edited by Mapletree (09 May 2018 5.07pm)
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Henry of Peckham  Eton Mess 09 May 18 5.08pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
By way of clarity, they have paid tax all their life and got public services back in return. Why should they now pay no tax but still enjoy the same services IF (big if) they can afford to pay as much as someone in the working population? What has chronology got do do with anything? As a PS, you are aware that recently the average income for pensioners passed the average income for the waged? Nonsense ... fixed incomes will never outstrip wages unless you are talking about the one off 3% increase this year? It was measured against cpi last September and it was zero the year before.
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| Lyons550 Shirley 09 May 18 5.09pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Do I look like a Doctor? i.e. can you read my writing?
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Hahaha I was actually asking for your opinion on whether money towards prevention could be the answer to reducing the excellent figures you pulled together above...  becky over the moon 09 May 18 5.12pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
I don't Becky I just say the argument that people have already paid is spurious. In my opinion retired people with large incomes should still contribute a part of their income in national insurance, just as they do in income tax. It doesn't matter how that income is earned, nor how old they are. It is an anachronistic anomaly. Originally NI contributions were brought in to pay benefits to working people - sick pay and unemployment benefit when they couldn't work and needed some support. Latterly it came to include a retirement pension contributions as most manual workers and those in smaller organisations didn't get any sort of company pension benefit, let alone a defined one. Surely, the best way to solve the anomaly would be for the government to do away with split Income Tax and National Insurance contributions and have one graduated tax rate starting at 23%. This would solve a lot of problems in that everyone would contribute according to their income, and be so much simpler and cheaper to administer, however.......... Good Luck to the Chancellor who is prepared to stand up and get that one through! Edited by becky (09 May 2018 5.13pm)
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