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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Aug 19 10.33am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

We'll have more attempts before 31st October I suspect. Only trying to stop the madness of what a majority voted for eh!!!

Point me in the direction of where in the leave campaign in 2016 it was stated we would leave in 2019 without first having an agreement with the EU over our future relationship in place.

What I remember is being told that such a deal was a piece of cake as the EU would fall over themselves to protect their exports to us.

Things change. When they do you need to react to change. You don't fight today's battles with yesterday's weapons.

Just moaning that's how we voted is a kids's response to a serious situation.

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Online Flag hove actually 12 Aug 19 10.42am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Point me in the direction of where in the leave campaign in 2016 it was stated we would leave in 2019 without first having an agreement with the EU over our future relationship in place.

What I remember is being told that such a deal was a piece of cake as the EU would fall over themselves to protect their exports to us.

Things change. When they do you need to react to change. You don't fight today's battles with yesterday's weapons.

Just moaning that's how we voted is a kids's response to a serious situation.

I'm in the Parliament doing what it's told camp. The left whipping against a deal while ignoring the fact that many Labour MP's represent leave constituencies doesn't help, particularly when there's no consenus on alternatives.

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Online Flag hove actually 12 Aug 19 11.03am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

I suspect the consensus she is looking for is that we should remain.

Perhaps someone might remind Caroline we just had a female PM she was a disaster and also the worst Home Secretary in years.

I don't buy into the women are better at building consensus in politics then men. In my experience peoples personalities nudge them to certain career paths.

If you have a kind caring personality you will gravitate to the NHS or equivalent role. If you have a big ego and believe you can make changes politics will be your thing. Putting a nurse in charge of the country would be a disaster because she would dither and would be unable to make the tough decisions. Likewise I would not want Maggie Thatcher as my nurse.

If you look at the successful female leaders they all make the same tough decisions that men make. Merkel isn't exactly a push over.

Edited by Badger11 (12 Aug 2019 9.21am)

A consensus of all women, all remain doesn't sound like unity.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Aug 19 11.12am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

I'm in the Parliament doing what it's told camp. The left whipping against a deal while ignoring the fact that many Labour MP's represent leave constituencies doesn't help, particularly when there's no consenus on alternatives.

Then you are yet another who doesn't understand how our democratic system works.

We don't send delegates to Parliament. We send representatives. It isn't their job to do what "it's told". Their job is to use their collective judgement to do what they believe is in the country's best interests.

Our job starts and finishes when we choose who will represent us.

The party whipping system is a matter of convention and not of Parliament. MP's have the total freedom, and the right, to ignore the whip if their conscience so dictates.

As it is the Labour party which thinks it sends delegates to Parliament I am always surprised when I hear a right leaning person agreeing with them.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 12 Aug 19 11.23am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

We'll have more attempts before 31st October I suspect. Only trying to stop the madness of what a majority voted for eh!!!

You know what's going to happen, the usual suspects are going to increasingly foam at the mouth and go swivel eyed the closer we get to the 31st.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Aug 2019 11.23am)

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Online Flag hove actually 12 Aug 19 11.23am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Then you are yet another who doesn't understand how our democratic system works.

We don't send delegates to Parliament. We send representatives. It isn't their job to do what "it's told". Their job is to use their collective judgement to do what they believe is in the country's best interests.

Our job starts and finishes when we choose who will represent us.

The party whipping system is a matter of convention and not of Parliament. MP's have the total freedom, and the right, to ignore the whip if their conscience so dictates.

As it is the Labour party which thinks it sends delegates to Parliament I am always surprised when I hear a right leaning person agreeing with them.

They voted on article 50 by a majority of 211 and the clock started ticking.

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 12 Aug 19 11.54am Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Then you are yet another who doesn't understand how our democratic system works.

We don't send delegates to Parliament. We send representatives. It isn't their job to do what "it's told". Their job is to use their collective judgement to do what they believe is in the country's best interests.

Our job starts and finishes when we choose who will represent us.

The party whipping system is a matter of convention and not of Parliament. MP's have the total freedom, and the right, to ignore the whip if their conscience so dictates.

As it is the Labour party which thinks it sends delegates to Parliament I am always surprised when I hear a right leaning person agreeing with them.

That is so condescending.

"members of the House of Commons voted by 544 to 53 in favour, endorsing the principle of holding a referendum"

You can't argue they are here to "represent" us and then argue it's OK for them to ignore a decision they asked us to make for them in the first place? They clearly thought that this referendum was in our "best interests". Why else would they ask us to vote in a referendum other than to decide? Did it say "straw poll" anywhere?

To anyone voting, "leaving" clearly meant the single market, customs union , European court and any other mechanism that ties us to this anti democratic s*** show. This is because people who are actually paying attention realize that if we don't leave now that option will quickly disappear under the rapidly growing federalism. Basically, similar to the backstop the issue of a deal is secondary to leaving the EU and Remainer extremists are just using them as tools in order to try and find a way to revoke article 50 and probably start a civil war.

Look to Macron if you want to see the kind of democracy we are quickly turning into. People are waking up to this via alternative media and now want to be free. This has been labelled "populism" which is just a dog whistle for some kind of gateway drug to fascism which is the polar opposite of the truth.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Aug 19 12.03pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

They voted on article 50 by a majority of 211 and the clock started ticking.

I know, and they can change their minds and revoke it if they so choose. That's the way Parliament works and if Johnson tries to stop them then we will have a full blown constitutional crisis.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Aug 19 12.23pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by W12

That is so condescending.

"members of the House of Commons voted by 544 to 53 in favour, endorsing the principle of holding a referendum"

You can't argue they are here to "represent" us and then argue it's OK for them to ignore a decision they asked us to make for them in the first place? They clearly thought that this referendum was in our "best interests". Why else would they ask us to vote in a referendum other than to decide? Did it say "straw poll" anywhere?

To anyone voting, "leaving" clearly meant the single market, customs union , European court and any other mechanism that ties us to this anti democratic s*** show. This is because people who are actually paying attention realize that if we don't leave now that option will quickly disappear under the rapidly growing federalism. Basically, similar to the backstop the issue of a deal is secondary to leaving the EU and Remainer extremists are just using them as tools in order to try and find a way to revoke article 50 and probably start a civil war.

Look to Macron if you want to see the kind of democracy we are quickly turning into. People are waking up to this via alternative media and now want to be free. This has been labelled "populism" which is just a dog whistle for some kind of gateway drug to fascism which is the polar opposite of the truth.

They haven't though ignored the referendum vote have they? Despite many having personal misgivings, including Mrs May, they have tried to find a way to implement the decision. So far nothing has gained a majority, not as to whether we will leave but how we will leave without causing unnecessary disruption and damage.

That some feel the EU to be a "sh*t hole of "growing federalism" doesn't mean it is, or that everyone who voted to leave agrees with you.

I don't see any Remainer "extremists". I see many pragmatists who want to stop us harming ourselves unnecessarily. I am in favour of remaining within a reformed EU. I don't know anyone who voted to remain who thinks the EU is perfect and entirely headed in the right direction. Like me they believe we are though better off inside than not and that we can help steer the EU towards the kind of organisation it needs to be. If we rescue the UK from Brexit then the opportunities to achieve that are markedly better now than in 2016 for they too have stared into the abyss. In today's world we need to be a member of a big and powerful group, with coordinated standards and procedures. We are just too small to really make it on our own. The alternative is to link up with the USA and adopt their standards etc. Knowing both those standards as I do, there is just no comparison, so no choice. The EU is fact and science based. The USA is politically based. The EU is the future. The USA is yesterday. Remaining associated with the EU via a "deal" is the minimum we must accept.

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 12 Aug 19 2.02pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

They haven't though ignored the referendum vote have they? Despite many having personal misgivings, including Mrs May, they have tried to find a way to implement the decision. So far nothing has gained a majority, not as to whether we will leave but how we will leave without causing unnecessary disruption and damage.

That some feel the EU to be a "sh*t hole of "growing federalism" doesn't mean it is, or that everyone who voted to leave agrees with you.

I don't see any Remainer "extremists". I see many pragmatists who want to stop us harming ourselves unnecessarily. I am in favour of remaining within a reformed EU. I don't know anyone who voted to remain who thinks the EU is perfect and entirely headed in the right direction. Like me they believe we are though better off inside than not and that we can help steer the EU towards the kind of organisation it needs to be. If we rescue the UK from Brexit then the opportunities to achieve that are markedly better now than in 2016 for they too have stared into the abyss. In today's world we need to be a member of a big and powerful group, with coordinated standards and procedures. We are just too small to really make it on our own. The alternative is to link up with the USA and adopt their standards etc. Knowing both those standards as I do, there is just no comparison, so no choice. The EU is fact and science based. The USA is politically based. The EU is the future. The USA is yesterday. Remaining associated with the EU via a "deal" is the minimum we must accept.

"They haven't though ignored the referendum vote have they?"

If you are talking about remaining in the EU, having a second referendum or anything other than leaving all of the major EU institutions and mechanisms then of course you have.


 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 12 Aug 19 2.30pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

The left are moaning Discrimination this! discrimination that!

And then come up with this peach.

BBC News - Green MP Caroline Lucas calls for all-female emergency cabinet
[Link]

I just noticed the all female government of National Unity "Ms Lucas has invited to join her are Labour's shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry, Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson, Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, Conservative MP Justine Greening, and Plaid Cymru Westminster leader Liz Saville Roberts.

The others are: Heidi Allen, Kirsty Blackman, Yvette Cooper, Sylvia Hermon, and Anna Soubry. She has asked to meet the 10 women in the coming days."

And how many of this national government of unity are leavers? I notice she didn't ask Arlene Foster who is not an MP but did ask Sturgeon who isn't either.

 


One more point

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 12 Aug 19 4.31pm Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I know, and they can change their minds and revoke it if they so choose. That's the way Parliament works and if Johnson tries to stop them then we will have a full blown constitutional crisis.

And you think people who voted leave will just roll over and accept that! Best of 3?

 

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