The Election Thread
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| Deleted11 26 Nov 19 11.34pm | |
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I think the deficit is misrepresented, most of the time on purpose and obviously because politicians just dont understand it. There are basically 2 deficits. The first is a necessity. If the gov doesnt print money, how else are you going to get it? The second can be good and bad. If you have a trade deficit, the likelihood is you are in a developed country and trying to run a surplus will most likely lead to a recession. The problem is private debt, but, the genie has been let out now and the mass debt people are taking on end up being assets to the wealthy and obviously support smaller businesses, etc. Im not even sure what would happen if the banks started lending 'conservatively'.
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 Rudi Hedman  Caterham 26 Nov 19 11.52pm |
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Originally posted by Jway89
I think the deficit is misrepresented, most of the time on purpose and obviously because politicians just dont understand it. There are basically 2 deficits. The first is a necessity. If the gov doesnt print money, how else are you going to get it? The second can be good and bad. If you have a trade deficit, the likelihood is you are in a developed country and trying to run a surplus will most likely lead to a recession. The problem is private debt, but, the genie has been let out now and the mass debt people are taking on end up being assets to the wealthy and obviously support smaller businesses, etc. Im not even sure what would happen if the banks started lending 'conservatively'. Answer. Borrowing by releasing bonds onto the bond market. That’s fiscal policy. Increasing money supply by printing money is monetary policy. Private debt is indeed a big problem in Britain but it’s a system that keeps people in the sh1tty jobs to make repayments. Edited by Rudi Hedman (26 Nov 2019 11.55pm)
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| Stirlingsays Online 26 Nov 19 11.55pm |
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Originally posted by Jway89
I think the deficit is misrepresented, most of the time on purpose and obviously because politicians just dont understand it. There are basically 2 deficits. The first is a necessity. If the gov doesnt print money, how else are you going to get it? I'm being a little dim here because it isn't my area ...but taxation? Raise what you require and live within that budget. Originally posted by Jway89
The second can be good and bad. If you have a trade deficit, the likelihood is you are in a developed country and trying to run a surplus will most likely lead to a recession. I think Trump's approach has seriously dented some of these assumptions. He was told that re-balancing these trade agreements would send the US and world economy spiraling downwards....didn't happen. Trump is determined to reduce trade deficits and quite frankly his approach hasn't had the 'experts' predicted downturn effects. Originally posted by Jway89
The problem is private debt, but, the genie has been let out now and the mass debt people are taking on end up being assets to the wealthy and obviously support smaller businesses, etc. Im not even sure what would happen if the banks started lending 'conservatively'.
I get what you are saying....that economies run on debt and promises of interest repayments down the line. But long term isn't this system holed below the water line? Can capitalism just continue forever with ever increasing debt levels.....Surely the interest on these things is going to be too large at some point.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 27 Nov 19 7.37am |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
Some free advice here. Anyone still thinking of voting for Corbyn after that train wreck of an Interview, I suggest you see a doctor in the morning. It appears that the MSM would agree with you this morning, not Corbyn's finest hour. Labour social media groups are tweeting to the faithful how to handle the fall out. His refusal to apologise for the problems of anti Semitism just smacks of bad grace rather like a 5Y0 defiantly saying to mummy "wont". What makes it even odder is Labour are so keen on this country apologising and self flagellating itself over all sorts of issues and yet can't bring it self to set an example. Johnson must be on soon and I bet his advisors are thinking if we can get through this without too many disasters that will be a major result. So far Brillo has skewered all of those he has interviewed the man is on fire. Andrew Neil for PM anyone? Edited by Badger11 (27 Nov 2019 7.39am) Edited by Badger11 (27 Nov 2019 7.40am)
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| Matov 27 Nov 19 8.08am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
His refusal to apologise for the problems of anti Semitism just smacks of bad grace rather like a 5Y0 defiantly saying to mummy "wont". What makes it even odder is Labour are so keen on this country apologising and self flagellating itself over all sorts of issues and yet can't bring it self to set an example. Edited by Badger11 (27 Nov 2019 7.39am) Edited by Badger11 (27 Nov 2019 7.40am) Might be bad grace but the electoral reality is that his stance actually garners Labour more votes than it loses. That is the Elephant in the room that nobody likes to admit. In terms of voting, the Jewish vote is of far less important to Labour than that of the Muslims. And this entire 'anti-semitism' row is primarily about Corbyn's critique of Israel and support for the Palestinian cause. Which plays well with his supporters.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Stirlingsays Online 27 Nov 19 8.44am |
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Originally posted by Matov
Might be bad grace but the electoral reality is that his stance actually garners Labour more votes than it loses. That is the Elephant in the room that nobody likes to admit. In terms of voting, the Jewish vote is of far less important to Labour than that of the Muslims. And this entire 'anti-semitism' row is primarily about Corbyn's critique of Israel and support for the Palestinian cause. Which plays well with his supporters. Precisely. The whole saga is a demonstration of the difference between reality and 'isms'. The reality is that Corbyn is pro Palestinian and anti Zionist and that to be frank is most of the party grass roots. Does being anti Zionist mean that you're anti semitic?......Well Zionism is Jewish nationalism and anti semitism is not liking Jews. It's not the same thing but it requires good faith and a wiliness to accept distinctions from your adversary to recognise it. . Well Labour have zero good faith when it comes to recognising the differences within Islam so why should they be afforded good faith in return.......Look what Corbyn and Labour did to Sarah Champion. It's all interest groups abusing their influence to paint black and white narratives in the media. The truth is that Corbyn has no problems with Jews who agree with him and there are Jews in Labour who do. But as we know Corbyn has no problem pushing lies on 'isms' himself for Labour's political gain...and so he himself doesn't care for nuance when it doesn't suit so feck him and the horse he rode in on. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Nov 2019 9.03am)
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| Badger11 Beckenham 27 Nov 19 9.03am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Precisely. The whole saga is a demonstration of the difference between reality and 'isms'. The reality is that Corbyn is pro Palestinian and anti Zionist and that to be frank is most of the party grass roots. Does being anti Zionist mean that you're anti semitic?......Well Zionism is Jewish nationalism and anti semitism is not liking Jews. It's not the same thing but it requires good faith and a wiliness to accept distinctions from your adversary to recognise it. . Well Labour have zero good faith when it comes to recognising the differences within Islam so why should they be afforded good faith in return.......Look what Corbyn and Labour did to Sarah Champion. It's all interest groups abusing their influence to paint black and white narratives in the media. The truth is that Corbyn has no problems with Jews who agree with him and there are Jews in Labour who do. But as we know Corbyn has no problem pushing lies on 'isms' himself for Labour's political gain...and so he himself doesn't care for nuance when it comes to Islam so feck him and the horse he rode in on. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Nov 2019 8.50am) I don't disagree with what you and Matov say about the committed supporters however I still have faith in the common-sense of most British people. As I have said many times on this forum the silent majority do not like extremists left or right and the elections show that. Corbyn maybe be playing to his supporters but that is not going to win over the uncommitted. At the last 2017 GE Labour did well where it always does well. I suspect you will see them increase their percentage share of the vote agin in those areas like London. However I don't believe that will lead to more seats as Labour are now the "nasty party" in the eyes of many. It's a shame that a once great party that stood for something and gave us the NHS is now full of spite and malice "if you're not for us you're against us". It must break the hearts of those moderate Labour people.
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| Stirlingsays Online 27 Nov 19 9.17am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I don't disagree with what you and Matov say about the committed supporters however I still have faith in the common-sense of most British people. As I have said many times on this forum the silent majority do not like extremists left or right and the elections show that. Corbyn maybe be playing to his supporters but that is not going to win over the uncommitted. At the last 2017 GE Labour did well where it always does well. I suspect you will see them increase their percentage share of the vote agin in those areas like London. However I don't believe that will lead to more seats as Labour are now the "nasty party" in the eyes of many. It's a shame that a once great party that stood for something and gave us the NHS is now full of spite and malice "if you're not for us you're against us". It must break the hearts of those moderate Labour people. I'd agree with your general analysis. There are demographics where their stance is supported but for the general WASP...who make up the majority...it won't be. The average British voter is not particularly political. They take the majority messages from the media and broadly accept it unless it runs against their personal interest.....when it most circumstances it doesn't. Now I don't agree with Corbyn and Labour over Israel, but I understand why they hold that position.....and I see the ethics of it....I just don't agree with them. As for what is extreme and what isn't, that is of course entirely subjective. If you had suggested twenty years ago that we would be teaching homosexuality acceptance within primary schools I think many would have viewed that as extreme. The recent media and political shifts on transgenderism could also be regarded as extreme. But it's all about perception and media messages.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 27 Nov 19 9.26am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'd agree with your general analysis. There are demographics where their stance is supported but for the general WASP...who make up the majority...it won't be. The average British voter is not particularly political. They take the majority messages from the media and broadly accept it unless it runs against their personal interest.....when it most circumstances it doesn't. Now I don't agree with Corbyn and Labour over Israel, but I understand why they hold that position.....and I see the ethics of it....I just don't agree with them. As for what is extreme and what isn't, that is of course entirely subjective. If you had suggested twenty years ago that we would be teaching homosexuality acceptance within primary schools I think many would have viewed that as extreme. The recent media and political shifts on transgenderism could also be regarded as extreme. But it's all about perception and media messages. Just heard one of the Birmingham school protestors get skewered by Nick Ferrari. Regardless of where you stand on the issue the guy was a jerk. Complaining the court was bias implying they would ignore the court order to stop which was also brought by neighbours who life is currently hell. He demanded his right of free speech which I think is great so he will support my right to criticise Islam? Oh right that's not the same thing that's Islamophobia. My sympathy is with the neighbours who have been suffering this noisy protest for months. Edited by Badger11 (27 Nov 2019 9.27am)
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| Stirlingsays Online 27 Nov 19 9.49am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Just heard one of the Birmingham school protestors get skewered by Nick Ferrari. Regardless of where you stand on the issue the guy was a jerk. Complaining the court was bias implying they would ignore the court order to stop which was also brought by neighbours who life is currently hell. He demanded his right of free speech which I think is great so he will support my right to criticise Islam? Oh right that's not the same thing that's Islamophobia. My sympathy is with the neighbours who have been suffering this noisy protest for months. Edited by Badger11 (27 Nov 2019 9.27am) I didn't hear it but I have no doubt your analysis is accurate. I'm of course against this policy but of course I don't agree with the harassment. I predict that unfortunately this situation is going to get pretty nasty.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 27 Nov 19 10.07am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I didn't hear it but I have no doubt your analysis is accurate. I'm of course against this policy but of course I don't agree with the harassment. I predict that unfortunately this situation is going to get pretty nasty. Certainly sounded like it will, of course this gentleman may not speak for the rest. The ban relates to the loud hailers I wouldn't want that outside my front door even if I agreed with them.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 27 Nov 19 10.09am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'd agree with your general analysis. There are demographics where their stance is supported but for the general WASP...who make up the majority...it won't be. The average British voter is not particularly political. They take the majority messages from the media and broadly accept it unless it runs against their personal interest.....when it most circumstances it doesn't. Now I don't agree with Corbyn and Labour over Israel, but I understand why they hold that position.....and I see the ethics of it....I just don't agree with them. As for what is extreme and what isn't, that is of course entirely subjective. If you had suggested twenty years ago that we would be teaching homosexuality acceptance within primary schools I think many would have viewed that as extreme. The recent media and political shifts on transgenderism could also be regarded as extreme. But it's all about perception and media messages. Can you briefly say why you agree with the ethics but don’t agree with them? I also have my views on the land grabbing and annexing and plenty of Jews would just want to change the subject quickly in their right for Israel to exist. I agree with your opinion that Jews have been good for Britain and I keep my thoughts of Zionism separate, and I can bet some Jews won’t allow me to do so, or try to not allow me to, which could be part of the following problem, but Corbyn hasn’t convinced there’s a distinction. With Corbyn and labour I think the distinction between the two has become confused. There’s been bullying and applying a feeling among much of the community. There’s also little doubt in my mind the politics of envy comes rushing to the surface and these lefties can’t control themselves with this passionate feeling of whoever shouldn’t have what. Jews have got their sh1t together and in my opinion it’s a big banner saying leave these people the fvck alone, but they can’t help themselves and they need people who need Labour. I would say hopefully they’re done but we know this is the early days of the rise of socialism because of imported support. Or Corbyn could just not get involved or poke his beak into every minority or issue everywhere, like other shadow leaders, or even PM’s, but that’s him and his protest default. Edited by Rudi Hedman (27 Nov 2019 10.19am)
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