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 Stirlingsays  05 Dec 19 4.37pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
What point are you making here? You can’t have a good job and believe society is unfair/unbalanced at the same time? I don’t get it. That's not what I said. I was referring to money and consistency.....Yeah, sure they sometimes point at actual unfairness, while directly contributing to it. Look, it's similar to the tax man who wants to join Jesus.....it's essentially the 'cake and eat it' brigade....The 'I can be rich, but I'm one of you or with you'. 'Don't be fooled by the rocks that I got. What a complete load of self deluded BS. A well off socialist is a hypocrite......give the extra away or admit that your support for that politics is a form of self aggrandisement.....a self image of yourself as moral while you make excuses for driving two cars and nice holidays while supporting 'equality'.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 05 Dec 19 4.38pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
What point are you making here? You can’t have a good job and believe society is unfair/unbalanced at the same time? I don’t get it. Yeah this needs explaining TBF I've never understood this standpoint Although in the context of religion it makes sense to me (i.e. follow your principles to the letter – follow religion as it was conceived – catholicism is most definately cheating, confession only started in the 11th century for crying out loud – but that's for another thread) Edited by SW19 CPFC (05 Dec 2019 4.40pm)
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Stirlingsays 05 Dec 19 4.45pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Yeah this needs explaining TBF I've never understood this standpoint Although in the context of religion it makes sense to me (i.e. follow your principles to the letter – follow religion as it was conceived – catholicism is most definately cheating, confession only started in the 11th century for crying out loud – but that's for another thread) Edited by SW19 CPFC (05 Dec 2019 4.40pm) Catholicism is nearer to the book though from implications of what Jesus is meant to have said to Peter.......though the resulting church is a parody of the New Testament. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2019 4.45pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 05 Dec 19 4.46pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
That's not what I said. I was referring to money and consistency.....Yeah, sure they sometimes point at actual unfairness, while directly contributing to it. Look, it's similar to the tax man who wants to join Jesus.....it's essentially the 'cake and eat it' brigade....The 'I can be rich, but I'm one of you'. Don't be fooled by the rocks that I got. What a complete load of BS. A well off socialist is a hypocrite......give the extra away or admit that your support for that politics is a form of self aggrandisement.....a deluded self image of yourself as moral while you make excuses for driving two cars and nice holidays. Haha to the JLO ref Doesn't your point of view only apply if said person says they are a die hard, puritanical socialist? What happens if they're socially and morally level headed, redistribute a significant portion of their wealth to benefit others, are sympathetic to 'socialism lite', lets say, yet still hold some back to enjoy life, but not in an ostentatious way? Aren't you being a bit binary here?
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 05 Dec 19 4.51pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Catholicism is nearer to the book though from implications of what Jesus is meant to have said to Peter.......though the resulting church is a parody of the New Testament. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2019 4.45pm) Perhaps, but it's way after the fact. The only religious individuals I have any respect for are monks, or those who dedicate their entire lives to whatever their religion is, in its purest sense. They're misguided, but at least they're committed. To come full circle, I have zero time for champagne religion. If you're going to waste your life, do it properly.
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| Stirlingsays 05 Dec 19 4.56pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Haha to the JLO ref Doesn't your point of view only apply if said person says they are a die hard, puritanical socialist? What happens if they're socially and morally level headed, redistribute a significant portion of their wealth to benefit others, are sympathetic to 'socialism lite', lets say, yet still hold some back to enjoy life, but not in an ostentatious way? Aren't you being a bit binary here? Well, there are degrees of hypocrisy aren't there...Like I say, it's the tax man to Jesus analogy. We are all hypocrites to smaller or larger extents, I'm not saying...for example, that Dan is a bad person...because he obviously has a conscience, I'm just saying that his comments perhaps betray a man of convenience.....for where it suits him, which is what money give you. He's hardly on his own there. Still, when it comes to money and politics the overt optics of being left and well off are stark. Anyone with extra money they think the government should be taking in taxes should already be giving it away....it's hardly as though that arrangement is hard to make.....But of course, it's so much easier to virtue signal it. I think accusing me of being a little binary is a fair accusation.....But what can I say, I like my socialists to live their principles and that just means I'm critical of champagne socialism.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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cryrst  The garden of England 05 Dec 19 5.05pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
You’ve already admitted you don’t read manifestos and vote Tory every election regardless - how are you able to make predictions about how bad it will be under Labour? What Labour tax policies are you referring to above? When my dad was on strike alongside the 3 day week in the 70s
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 05 Dec 19 5.09pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Well, there are degrees of hypocrisy aren't there...Like I say, it's the tax man to Jesus analogy. We are all hypocrites to smaller or larger extents, I'm not saying...for example, that Dan is a bad person...because he obviously has a conscience, I'm just saying that his comments perhaps betray a man of convenience.....for where it suits him, which is what money give you. He's hardly on his own there. Still, when it comes to money and politics the overt optics of being left and well off are stark. Anyone with extra money they think the government should be taking in taxes should already be giving it away....it's hardly as though that arrangement is hard to make.....But of course, it's so much easier to virtue signal it. I think accusing me of being a little binary is a fair accusation.....But what can I say, I like my socialists to live their principles and that just means I'm critical of champagne socialism.
I get that, but I think my definition of champagne socialism is different to yours. Which is probably to be expected. I agree re. the taxes point of view – but that doesn't mean they should be giving it all away, just the amount they think others should be relative to their circumstance. Which makes sense to me. The problem for me is also fear mongering and ignorance around true, puritanical socialism vs. labours current version. They're not the same thing. And people like the 80k guy on news night who thinks he's on an average wage don't do much to help my general assumptions around what people assume 2019 'socialism' to be. The truth is it's a hybrid not an all in scenario, so for me some of the criticism and soundbites aren't grounded in reality – they're just knee jerk reactions based on all in socialism, which is not what is being sold in. No way you'd get away with full on socialism now – they'd be voted out at the next election.
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| Stirlingsays 05 Dec 19 5.09pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Perhaps, but it's way after the fact. The only religious individuals I have any respect for are monks, or those who dedicate their entire lives to whatever their religion is, in its purest sense. They're misguided, but at least they're committed. To come full circle, I have zero time for champagne religion. If you're going to waste your life, do it properly. They are even worse! It appears that we are both religious fundamentalists - in the old sense of the term.....If you are going to believe in the fairy tales then do it properly....or don't bother......Perhaps you're even more stanch on that than me....I kind of have time for genuine Catholics....or even the serious Protestants like Quakers and even those filthy casuals....the Methodists. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2019 5.09pm)
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 05 Dec 19 5.10pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
When my dad was on strike alongside the 3 day week in the 70s The 70s. I stopped reading after that.
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 05 Dec 19 5.17pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
They are even worse! It appears that we are both religious fundamentalists - in the old sense of the term.....If you are going to believe in the fairy tales then do it properly....or don't bother......Perhaps you're even more stanch on that than me....I kind of have time for genuine Catholics....or even the serious Protestants like Quakers and even those filthy casuals....the Methodists. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2019 5.09pm) Mainly agree. Religion has been changed and adapted so much for no other purpose than power and convenience I find it amazing people still a) follow the modern incarnations of it and b) do so thinking they're following it correctly. Newsflash, you're not. Especially if you are CoE. Well done. Your version was created by a fat man with gout to get his way 1532 years after the fact. It's not correct. Waste of life I have more respect for Pagans than anyone who follows any branch of christianity.
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| Stirlingsays 05 Dec 19 5.22pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
I get that, but I think my definition of champagne socialism is different to yours. Which is probably to be expected. I agree re. the taxes point of view – but that doesn't mean they should be giving it all away, just the amount they think others should be relative to their circumstance. Which makes sense to me. The problem for me is also fear mongering and ignorance around true, puritanical socialism vs. labours current version. They're not the same thing. And people like the 80k guy on news night who thinks he's on an average wage don't do much to help my general assumptions around what people assume 2019 'socialism' to be. The truth is it's a hybrid not an all in scenario, so for me some of the criticism and soundbites aren't grounded in reality – they're just knee jerk reactions based on all in socialism, which is not what is being sold in. No way you'd get away with full on socialism now – they'd be voted out at the next election. Your money, your choice....the government taxes you what if thinks it can best get away with as an average for your income...but the individual can always support those causes that bother them.....No one ever needs to have money they don't need if they make a point of empathic politics. I'd say we probably agree more on this than don't. You must understand that I have to keep giving Dan a reason to 'hate click' onto the site. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2019 5.48pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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