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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 21 10.32am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

We are constantly being told that we have to do everything we can to save the NHS, or help the NHS but no other countries have it - presumably they’re all doing what they can to save something which doesn’t have the emotional pull of the NHS.

That other countries don't have the NHS does mean they aren't protecting their own health services in much the same way as we are! There's nothing "emotional" about it. It's simple logic.

 


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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 20 Dec 21 10.41am Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That other countries don't have the NHS does mean they aren't protecting their own health services in much the same way as we are! There's nothing "emotional" about it. It's simple logic.

If it’s free, in this country it’s celebrated, if it’s paid for it’s just another business, which is how I view the NHS because we do pay for it, just not directly.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 21 11.04am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Quote for the BBC webpage this morning - Modelling from Sage - scientists who advise the government - puts UK daily deaths at 600 a day at best and 6,000 a day at worst.
they just pluck figures out of the air.
They are advisors and yet they are all keen to get their faces on TV to tell us the worst just in case they are right.
The Welsh health minister said last week that there were 10,000 people in hospital with Covid in Wales- she was forced to apologise the following day when told that the figure was nearer to 600 people!
Project Fear!

Edited by The Dolphin (20 Dec 2021 9.40am)

They just don't "pluck figures out of the air" or "want to get on TV". Neither is remotely true. You have posted a lot of common sense recently, but I don't think this is.

The science is based on sophisticated computer modelling, done by various independent groups. When their results all point in the same direction, and groups in other countries are reaching similar conclusions, then they need to be taken seriously.

We need to trust experts and not our "gut instincts".

You wouldn't have a family picnic in the middle of the M25 just because there was no traffic to be seen. The experts, looking at their screens, would know it was a temporary hold up and, as soon as it cleared, there would be a surge of vehicles bearing down on you.

That some of our scientists have been trained in media skills doesn't mean they want to be on TV, only that they need to be. Most shun the limelight.

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 21 11.10am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

If it’s free, in this country it’s celebrated, if it’s paid for it’s just another business, which is how I view the NHS because we do pay for it, just not directly.

Everyone knows we pay for it. It is just a different business model. Compared, for instance, with the USA, it is a much more efficient way of delivering health care. It costs us around half per capita than in the USA.

When the motive is profit, finding problems, and extending treatments, is commercially attractive.

When the motive is efficiency, the motive is to discover the real issues and treat them as swiftly as possible.

 


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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 20 Dec 21 11.17am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Everyone knows we pay for it. It is just a different business model. Compared, for instance, with the USA, it is a much more efficient way of delivering health care. It costs us around half per capita than in the USA.

When the motive is profit, finding problems, and extending treatments, is commercially attractive.

When the motive is efficiency, the motive is to discover the real issues and treat them as swiftly as possible.

State run organisations efficient! You do make me laugh Wisbelch.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 20 Dec 21 11.31am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

They just don't "pluck figures out of the air" or "want to get on TV". Neither is remotely true. You have posted a lot of common sense recently, but I don't think this is.

The science is based on sophisticated computer modelling, done by various independent groups. When their results all point in the same direction, and groups in other countries are reaching similar conclusions, then they need to be taken seriously.

We need to trust experts and not our "gut instincts".

You wouldn't have a family picnic in the middle of the M25 just because there was no traffic to be seen. The experts, looking at their screens, would know it was a temporary hold up and, as soon as it cleared, there would be a surge of vehicles bearing down on you.

That some of our scientists have been trained in media skills doesn't mean they want to be on TV, only that they need to be. Most shun the limelight.

Is this a joke? Incredulous rubbish. All of these experts have produced wildly different projections. The best recently is 600-6,000. I can’t even remember what the prediction was for it’s so ridiculously wide (and probably by 1 person/group)

 


COYP

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 20 Dec 21 11.33am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Everyone knows we pay for it. It is just a different business model. Compared, for instance, with the USA, it is a much more efficient way of delivering health care. It costs us around half per capita than in the USA.

When the motive is profit, finding problems, and extending treatments, is commercially attractive.

When the motive is efficiency, the motive is to discover the real issues and treat them as swiftly as possible.

Or when it's not your money you don't care about efficiency from Senior managers on down. The wastage in the NHS is horrendous.

 


One more point

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View eaglesdare's Profile eaglesdare Flag 20 Dec 21 11.40am Send a Private Message to eaglesdare Add eaglesdare as a friend

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Quote for the BBC webpage this morning - Modelling from Sage - scientists who advise the government - puts UK daily deaths at 600 a day at best and 6,000 a day at worst.
they just pluck figures out of the air.
They are advisors and yet they are all keen to get their faces on TV to tell us the worst just in case they are right.
The Welsh health minister said last week that there were 10,000 people in hospital with Covid in Wales- she was forced to apologise the following day when told that the figure was nearer to 600 people!
Project Fear!

Edited by The Dolphin (20 Dec 2021 9.40am)


Completely agree with this! Its thier moment to shine all these professors and scientists and they are coming up with with these ridiculous numbers and doom and gloom predictions which the media all love and keen to interview! god fobid they interview someone who has some sense!

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 20 Dec 21 11.43am Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by The Dolphin

This could be Boris's moment to claw back everything that he has lost of late by telling us all to be careful, wear our masks and so on but absolutely no lockdown - trouble is - has he got the b***s to do it?

Personally I think this is actually more likely than you think. If he goes further than that he dies, politically. So in fact it would take more balls to enforce a lockdown than what is now option 1, according to the telegraph.

Option 2 is back to enforced social distancing and reduced mixing. It's going to be 1 or 2, probably 1.

My hunch now is that the real issue is not going to be hospitalisations, it's going to be the knock on of mass isolation across various industries and sectors. So something is coming, albeit temporarily, either way.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 20 Dec 21 12.00pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That other countries don't have the NHS does mean they aren't protecting their own health services in much the same way as we are! There's nothing "emotional" about it. It's simple logic.

It's even simpler logic that people in other countries aren't likely to be that concerned about HMOs that they can't afford.

 

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View The Dolphin's Profile The Dolphin Online Flag 20 Dec 21 12.27pm Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

Wisbech - if scientific modelling produces a range of between 600 and 6000 deaths per day then something is wrong.
I accept those are best/worst case scenarios but the truth is that they do not yet have enough info on Omicron except that in theory it is not as bad as Delta and with the vaccination level being high then hospitalisations/deaths should stay relatively low.
New cases shouldn't mean further restrictions if they are not resulting in the NHS being put under pressure.
Until they have enough info to comment seriously then they should spouting forth about it.

 

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View The Dolphin's Profile The Dolphin Online Flag 20 Dec 21 12.30pm Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

Someone should seriously list out all of the figures/stats that were spouted last time out - they were all wrong then and likely all wrong now.
Every death is sad but we heard 500,000 deaths by the end of last year and so on - most of them are just academic buffoons.

 

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